**New copies of the pictures have been uploaded, with the exception of the first four, since they’re not critical to the post, IMO. (Plus it’s Christmas Eve…)
The first slide is an overview of the plaza, with the points of entry…
Another overview, with the proposed new stage at the foot of McDougall.
A scale overview of the new stage along with the new access from McDougall to the plaza.
A cut away view of the same view, as you can see there will be space for dressing rooms, loading docks, etc… a far cry from “The Onion” which is half of the old entrance to the temporary Casino, that was located where the Art Gallery is today.
A bird’s eye view of the ramp from McDougall to the plaza, along with the new sound stage.
A street level view. Looks like the materials may be concrete with a bit of colour added in on the back of the stage with some wood cladding.
A 3D model looking east from the back of the stage, you can see the ramp to street level, as well as the loading docks.
A 3D view looking west from the front of the stage.
An artist’s conception of the stage
An artist’s view looking towards the west near street level.
While I’m not generally a giant fan of modern architecture, this is actually a very nice concept. Whereas some times, buildings look idiotic because they don’t fit in with their neighbours, in this case there are no other buildings for it clash with.
There has been some federal stimulus money given towards the project, and it will get rid of the joke of a stage that’s currently there, and it will also remove the blue buildings along the waterfront that are left over from the days of the Northern Belle Casino.
All in all I think it’s a decent design, and I really like how they’ll tie McDougall Street into the waterfront, and create a better pedestrian access point. Those wooden stairs that are there now are a disgrace, as is the onion.
This will be a great addition to the waterfront, and might just be the piece of the puzzle that transforms the Festival Plaza space into to something that Windsor can actually be proud of.
I just hope that the design doesn’t get scaled back and the project gets the typical Windsor cheapening.
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Also, this will be the last post this week, Check back here Monday the 28th following the holiday weekend, for a new post. I hope everyone out there has a safe a happy holiday weekend, whatever you happen to celebrate or believe in.
See you Monday.
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this is a HUGE improvement over the onion…
although this is big for windsor… and i agree could very easly be cheapened up.. it could have possibly been better… maybe something cantilevering over the water? something with more transparency? i dont know… were there a series of proposals? i wonder if it would be possible to see alternative designs.
The old Northern Belle building is fascinating–though I won’t miss it once it’s gone. For those who’ve never poked around–it is essentially intact (what remains of it) — including even the tile flooring that ‘graced’ the interior of the old “landside” building.
This is one civic project that makes sense. The only issue with it is concrete. Too much concrete. It appears as if everything this city does these days is with concrete. Ouellette avenue, the Burt Weeks Fountain, the new Peace Fountain at Pillette, the Bistro at the foot of Dieppe… All of these structures look like bunkers. It would be nice too see some of these things softened up a bit with different colours and textures. This feature is a nice and useful addition to the riverfront. Hopefully it will not look like tired and dirty concrete forty years down the road.
The Windsor Star has a copy of the presentation in PDF format here:
http://www.windsorstar.com/pdf/Festivalplazastage.pdf
Thanks for the link Shawn. I guess the “real” media doesn’t get their requests ignored 😉
I like the new design as well but I have to agree with M.O.M. Why so much concrete?
Why not inter-locking bricks?
Speaking of which, I wish we would have used brick on major intersections downtown in patterns of the maple leaf such as above. I mean are we not supposed to be the gateway of Canada?
Getting back on topic. The only other design issue is that it should be closer to downtown so that crowds would have an impact on local business. But in all, much better than what is there now.
I hope there is still some consideration for the Marina opportunity from the CIP in that area.. i think at the foot of glengary or marentette. This concrpt would be an excellent compliment to an adjacent transient Marina.
Well done for keeping these projects and the like in the public eye. I concur with your sentiments and hope that they don’t skimp on the project.
This could become another great venue for the arts. Following the recent report in the Windsor Star on the Art Scene in Windsor, this is one more thing to give some impetus to organizing what Windsor has to offer.
My Christmas wish is that somehow the City will figure out how to promote Windsor PROPERLY as a destination. We really have so much to offer. It’s just so fragmented in its promotion. If Elliot Lake can promote themselves in McLeans magazine…. I rest my case.
Merry Christmas.
And I hope there is still room for the Bike Rental and Snack bar.
I find the design somewhat retro, reminds me of what was new and exciting . . . in the fifties! Moreover I rather resent the whole project when the Capital, which absorbed so much tax money a few years back, sits underused and ignored.
Squint a little, folks and you may see vestiges of the ill-fated Cleary Guest House circa 1957…all that blocky architectural massing and slab like cantilevered horizontal planes. My fear is that history will repeat itself and, come say 2045, the rallying cry will be: “remove that ugly view-spoiling monstrosity from our pristine riverfront!”
Andrew, you should be receiving an email from our office with all of the amphitheatre images for your use. It was not our intention to avoid sending them to you!!
Regardless, thank you for providing the link to our web site and feel free to update the images of the TD bank building anytime since it now near completion and the comments posted to date are based on initial perceptions and not the finished product. We would welcome your thoughts. Jerry
Now there is a gentleman above (Kavs).
I too hope they still have bike rentals and snack bar. We are under-utilizing or riverfront to the point of uselessness.
yeah wow, that was good of you Kavs. Also nice to see the arcitects seem to regularly watch the site and know what we’re thinking! I’m not a giant fan of modern architecture,but this is certainly a nice looking structure, and would be a fantastic asset! i think more use of brick than all that concrete would make it more paletable…to me anyhow.
It would tie in great with the marina, which we should be starting NOW since Detroit has already got their new customs office and cruise ship/ferry docking facilities on the go, we’ll “miss the boat” when promotion time comes to sell these cities as a joint destination.
another thing that i think should be done is turn the Spirit of Windsor around. Poor girl is eternally driving towards a wall of earth. if she was pointed more in the direction of the loading ramps, that’ll give people more of an indication of what those ramps are. i saw someone on “flickr” telling the world they’re left over machines that were used to install the sea walls!
Merry Chrismahaunakwanza everyone!!!
Aaron, I agree that the Spirit of Windsor would look better if it could be turned around but that wouldbe a costly thing to do. Its restoration is almost complete and could not have been done without the benefit of a Trillium grant and local contributions. We have worked on the old girl for the past two summers (all volunteer through The Southern Ontario Locomotive Restoration Society – Windsor Chapter) and we hope to complete the project next spring.
Personally, I would like more exhibits along the river front reminding visitors of the railway past of this site. The arrival of the railroad in 1854 was perhaps the most important development that contributed to the city’s rise and subsequent growth.
Thanks Kavs, and thanks to Stephen Berrill at ADA who sent me a copy of the renderings. I will post updated photos tomorrow.
JBM – i probly won’t be able to respond for a few days, but does this restoration include boiler work? would she ever run again or is this more crucial body work to keep her in one peice?
i’m sure it would take a rather large crane at 150000 bucks an hour to do the job of turning her as well. i would like a replica of the train station built in it’s original position and place the SoW next to it…turn it into a rail museum.
I, for one, hate it. Spending $2mil to build a new stage to demolish the other one makes no sense. Hart Plaza, just across the river, has 3 stages. Why cculdn’t they have added this design on the other side of the old one or in one of the riverfront parking lots further down the river so we could have at least two stages. Or make a stage underground like Hart Plaza. Or even have a stage coming from each side of this new one. Think big Windsor! Construct something big enough to attract those 5 million+ Metro Detroit residents to Windsor like they do at Hart Plaza. Demolishing the old stage is such a waste and a waste of my taxpayer dollars. Whoever agreed to this will lose my vote at election time.
i don’t know david. i think having two stages trying to compete with the casino, and heart plaza for that matter, or eachother, won’t work well. One of the 2 will rarely be used and will quickly fall into disrepair. i do like the idea of having 2, one at either end of the park. the bridge would be an amazing back drop for an outdoor concert! and if i remember the stories right, they did have outdoor concerts by the bridge back in the summers of love.
keeping the old stage however, would look cheap as hell trying to integrate it into something new. it’s a shelter for valets or metal detectors or whatever it was. it looked stupid infront of the casino, it looks stupid as a stage. not picking a fight here, but something (ie: history)tells me if they said they were going to merge the old with the new, right off the bat, you’d be the first to scream about how cheap the city is for re-using such a hiddeous POS. as far as going underground……almost all of that parkland is reclaimed. i’m not sure how far down we could go. Heart plaza is set back quite a bit from the river which is probly what makes that possible.
i also think that it isn’t necessary to have a sea of concrete around this thing. i can’t remember the last outdoor concert i went to and wanted to spread my blanket out on the tarmac. leave it as grass, the heat coming off that would turn people away i would think. we have a parks department that is more than capable of keeping it lush and green no matter how many asses plop down on it.
Why would I be the first to scream? It doesn’t sound like me. A bandshell is a profit center. The city charges rent to use it. At least, that’s what I’ve been told from all the organizers I’ve talked to. What did Red Bull spend to rent that whole strip with part of the airport? $125,000? Detroit Electronic Music festival rents Hart Plaza, had 80,000 in attendance at the last one, charged $20 a head or $45 for the weekend, used all three bandshells and paid rent. Hoedown uses all three bandshells at Hart Plaza. The Windsor’s Bluesfest was $20 a head. Epicure Festival wasn’t free to get in, even though the restaurants paid the city rent for the space to set up their booths. Most events there charge admission, which is used to pay the city rent plus they charge private operators rent for space to set up their booths. The more bandshells you have, the further you expand the total space of the plaza, the higher occupancy you can have, the more rent you can charge and you can offer better value to the admission paying attendees.
The city can charge different rates for the bandshells, with the onion one at a much lower rate or they can rent the newer one at a higher rate or they can rent both to offer more value for people’s admission. The cost to rent the Onion bandshell obviously wouldn’t be the same as the new one because, as you said, “it looks cheap as hell.” Likewise, the rents would be cheaper for the cheaper looking one. You could also hold two different events on the same weekend. By knocking down the original bandshell instead of expanding Festival plaza to the parking lot behind it with a second bandshell, the city just threw taxpayer money down the toilet. At least, the city is getting some kind of return on previously spent taxpayer dollars. Think big! What’s the return on previously spent taxpayer dollars on a demolished bandshell? Zip!
If we must spend taxpayer dollars, let’s make Festival plaza bigger and better to hold larger events that will be able to charge higher rents.
yeah i get ya there. and sorry about the “first to scream”….but usually when the city cuts corners being cheap, you are the first….of many mind you, including myself.( and prehaps…i’m just not happy about being at work right now..so i appologize) if that idea was in the original plans, i think alot of us would think they were being cheap, and second rate when we’re trying to become an international destination. i suppose you could still use it, but maybe just pull it out when the need arises. can it be taken apart? if it can be taken apart with relative ease then that’s cool, but keeping it as a permenent structure……i just don’t think it would work. if were going to spend tax payer dollars, i’d rather see the bandshell in jackson park which is completly useless, disassembled and brought to the river…..as unrealistic as that may be.
i hate to sound negitive here, but detroit is a city that can pull that kind of stuff off. regardless of the D’s economy, they will forever be Motown and Detroit rock city. now, if we can get some commuter ferries kickin again, you could make incredibly huge detroit/windsor concert series where after a band plays at HP, you get on the boat to windsor for another concert, then head back for another in the D. get the ferry co. involved in it and you’ve got something going.
alright, now i’m rambling and not really making sense.
if i don’t get back on here tonight, have a nice christmas David,
Aaron, the restoration was for cosmetic purposes. The jacketing had developed many holes and was coming apart. Consequently, the metal jacketing was completely removed and replaced with new material. The boiler was inspected but was not altered. Although this locomotive is in relatively good condition in consideration of its age, to perform a complete restoration with the intention of returning it to service would be cost prohibitive. Such a restoration would require a structure to house it (with cranes, etc.), lots of specialized tooling (much of which no longer exists) and some very knowledgeable skilled tradesmen (not many left who have worked on such machines). The locomotive would have to be completely disassembled and rebuilt and this would cost millions to do.
However, it is worthwhile to retain and maintain this locomotive as a testament to Windsor’s past. A replica depot or station would be nice but it is not likely such a structure would be permitted on this site (which is the approximate location of the original station). Nonetheless, it would be worthwhile to erect some informational plaques with pictures along the riverfront to inform the public of the associated history.
On another note, the city could erect signs with pictures in some of the downtown parking lots stating “Here once stood….”. Perhaps then someone will take notice and realize what has been lost and a better effort will be made to retain some of what remains. In this regard, Andrew does an excellent job raising the level of knowledge and informing readers of historical and architectural significances.
clarification:
the old onion is past a point of feasible repair…the idea of a second smaller stage isn’t dead yet.
the design is fashioned in a manner that it will be dificult to strip away materials (cheapen it) without altering physical structure.
the created public terrace is equally as important to this solution as the theater itself.
we worked with multiple user groups from rockers to classicists..from theater to individuals and feel comfortable to have acheived an environment that satisfies and works well as a mulituse center….the majority of the public input was possitive and constructive.
great to see the city pulling together on a project for ourselves, coming from a long history of missed opportunities.
kudos
JBM i routinly watch city council meetings most monday nites a fw months back city council was talking about the locomotive parked down at the river,i don’t recall all the details of the conversation but percy hatfield made the comment of building a caboose like structure to tack onto the rear of tender to act as a info booth for visitors to the corejust what we need a fake looking plywood structure i think the city would have done better to try and locate a old steam era caboose but then thats city council for you always looking for the cheap way out
Gary, I had not heard about that proposal but it is rather absurd. It hope it never happens.
MOM i agree with you it would be nice to see colors used like they do down south in florida pastels to brighton up the area, what really drives me nuts is we have the Peace fountain in Reaume park,then theres the Peace beacon above the Bistro at the foot of Ouellette then the newest addition the Peace clock at Ouellette &Wyandotte whats up with this word i think the city’s wearing itout where’s the originality innaming somethoing it makes me wonder what their going name the new Bridge once it’s built the windsor greenway multi use down river crossing or something goofy like that lol
JBM ya i was watching a council meeting one nite and it was Percy Hatfield that brought up the idea ofbuilding this tacky playwood caboose and have it in line with the rear of the tender i’m sure you could get the railroad to donate an old caboose to the cause because of the railroad history in this area