If last week was tour week, then this week is old ad’s/then and now week…
From December 1952:
National Auto Radiator, better known as the Narmco Group today.
Look at the little tiny factory…
It’s still there on Airport Rd., only there has been an expansion or two in the last 56 years…
As you can see, the rest of the complex has sprouted up around the original section…
They’ve got to be one of Windsor’s oldest homegrown Automotive Suppliers.
Family run company, locally educated, HQ’d out of Windsor with a dozen branches in North America that even supplies stuff to Toyota. Over half a billon in sales employing over 1100 people and still expanding. Didn’t know that Windsor still had it. Interesting 5 minute video on their website. http://www.narmco.com/main/video.html
They just closed one location Falcon Tool & Die in Windsor this past August. A couple of others not doing so well. They have a reputation of mistreating their employees.
sweet! i love then and now’s!!! keep’em comin andrew!
Yeah sure, and CAW has a reputation for bankrupting a lot of companies and putting a lot of people out of work, Guido. How many automotive jobs have been lost in this city in the past decade? How many of them were union? Open your eyes!
FYI most of the NARMCO plants including the one pictured above is unionized and for a long time. Wages for most of the workers at National are $21.00- $30.00/hr not including benefits.
Why are they still in operation? According to your beliefs and alot of others it should not even be in operation because it’s unionized.
I’m not going to continue this on this blog because you only want to see it your way. I’ve been through this with you before. You are a very bitter person towards unions, maybe it’s jealousy, maybe you were fired and the union could not get you back in, maybe you were not fortunate enough to get in, or you know you would not be able to sustain the work in a factory and never applied.
So, it’s unionized and you’re still complaining that they have a “reputation for mistreating their employees”. I’m totally expecting that unions would continue to slam their employers instead of standing behind them and building their company’s reputation. It’s become everything that’s wrong with this city. If I had a company that became unionized, I’d shut it down and move to China or Mexico where they want my business.
Who wants to buy products from a company where the employees don’t believe in the product and instead just slam their employers? It’s a two-way street. You can’t slam your employers on a blog. making the company look bad, and then expect them to have work for you in the future instead of layoffs. If you don’t like where you work, then quit, collect welfare and become a bum, find a job somewhere else or start your own company. You’ve got options. But, don’t bite off the hand that feeds you or you’re ruining it for everyone that lives in this city.
I worked at National Auto Rad for a couple summers while in university. Best paying summer job I ever had. Glad to hear it has survived the current economic climate.
The Liberals and Conservatives are the ones who deserve blame for the decline of manufacturing in Ontario. The “free trade” agreements of the past 20 years have given away the farm. If the Tories and Grits had been fighting to include labour standards in those agreements we would not be in the dire position we are currently.
Probably not the place to discuss how they treat their workers. I will say that I deal with a lot of their engineers and they’re all really nice people. Most have been with the company for years and years. Most of our clients are quiet right now in this industry and things have slowed down but NARMCO is still sending us work. So, they’re definitely doing something right.
how did this picture become a union issue?
“If you don’t like where you work, then quit, collect welfare and become a bum” —– what’s that supposed to mean? so david, if you loose your job and MUST go on welfare (which YOU have been paying into for just such an occasion) to keep a roof over your head, it’s appropiate for me to lable you as a “bum” or would you prefer “homeless person”, “vegabond”, “vagrant” ?????? or would you be totally offended and hurt that you’ve tried your best and life dealt you a bad hand beyond your control. then i come along and accuse you of leeching off the system?? they all mean the same thing david. i know there’s alot of people that abuse it, but there are more that need that support until they can get back on their feet or else they really do become bums.
every company is going to have bad times, especially right now. if they didn’t have that union they wouldn’t be layed off at all….they’d be fired, AND ON WELFARE.
what an ignorant comment. you should really consider the countless people that read this blog day in and day out david.
I can see valid points raised by both David and Guido this time. But the fact NARMCO has weathered the storm in Windsor’s manufacturing sector thus far rises above all the pro/anti union rhetoric. Obviously NARMCO/CAW is doing something right in this instance – management for keeping the business viable and the union for negotiating what is obviously a very good collective agreement. We’ve got enough bad stuff going on elsewhere in this city’s manufacturing sector without making NARMCO a point of contention.
yeah, me too. they both have valid points.
i just got focused on the elfare automaticly = bum comment. i probly shouldn’t have got all upset about that…my appologize people; Andrew.
the CAW is alright depending on what local you’re dealing with. if your people are willing to give a bit your company can survive these things without massive layoffs. they happen still, but not on a scale like the 444 and the like. people are layed off, plants going idle, and they still threaten to strike if they can’t get another pay raise, more benifits etc, etc….
that’s where the unions go bad. it has to be give and take between the union and employees
to make sure the company and jobs are there thru the good and the bad.
I don’t think it’s ignorant Aaron. Let’s be clear about something. It’s one thing if someone is using assistance to retain for a new career and get back on their feet. It’s another if they are abusing the system and sitting at home watching TV all day or commiting crimes and doing nothing with their life for 5 years–that’s what I call a bum. And, this city has lots of them. Are you one, since I’ve set you off? Maybe I should have made it more clear that there are different categories of people on assistance.
CAW is doing nothing right. In fact, they really missed the boat and did incredible damage to autoworkers by not jumping on the two-tier wage system like the UAW. That just shows how destructive they are.
The unionized Big Three are now asking US Congress for $80 billion US to keep them afloat. The unions sucked the Big Three dry like any company. You don’t see non-union Toyota asking for any of that aid. In fact, they are turning a profit. But, the union ones are not. Unions just destroy companies and move on to destroy to the next one. And, as you can see from Guido’s comments, Narmco has already had to shut down some of it’s unionized plants like Falcon because unions have made it unprofitable.
LOGIC: if that union plant was profitable, it wouldn’t be shut down.
FACT: Unions add 30% to the cost of labour for the employer vs. non-unionized companies (that’s from a Canadian Chamber of Commerce study).
How the hell do you expect to compete with that?? Unions are the devil. I don’t see the workers at Toyota complaining and wanting to unionize. Why? Because they believe in the company and don’t want to see it destroyed by a union. If the Big Three weren’t unionized, I doubt they’d be begging the US gov’t for huge sums of money to avert bankruptcy. Open your eyes. Unions caused these high unemployment rates in this city. Forget this blaming the Federal gov’t for bad trade agreements. Most of the cars we make are exported to the US. What bad trade agreements? Closing our doors to the rest of the world would upset the US, which would result in trade reprisals from the US. The Federal gov’t doesn’t have a choice in the matter. It’s just a union smokescreen to hide from the fact that they are cause of it.
no toyota isn’t stupid. they treat their employees the same as if they were in a union so the people don’t leave. if they want to eff the dog at work they get fired, not patt on the back.
i know this already. but when the UAW was established it was for a good reason, and it was for a very long time until it spiraled out of control. i wasn’t arguing that.
i wasn’t happy about your ignorant comment.
am i on welfare? not that it’s any for your buisness but no i’m not. as a matter of FACT, i’m at work this very moment and i have been since 11 this morning.
but my family was when i was a kid and it wasn’t because my parents were degenerates of society. they busted their humps day and night, but the early 80’s wasn’t exactly a fantastic time in windsor as i’m sure you remember. so jobs get lost.
maybe you should have been more clear david. because the only thing you wrote about people on welfare was ignorant up until you last post……thanks for clarifying.
and the people that arn’t regularly on here just might take your comments the wrong way.
Blah blah blah… same old story, different day. It seems to me that everyone who says that the unions are to blame for the demise of the manufacturing industry- especially in this city, are usually the ones who have never stepped foot in a factory or the like. Know-it-alls if you will. Sorry, there is a higher reason for the decline. It starts with the unfair trade practices of the offshore products; the governements abolishment of the autopact; the almighty dollar (employers who’d rather pay a foreign employee pennies a day) etc etc. The wages and benefits of the workers are not corrupting the companies- in fact the total cost of the ENTIRE workforce per vehicle pumped out of Windsor Assembly Plant is a mere 7%. I usually keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue on this issue but I’m sick and tired of people blaming the wrong crowd and give shot after shot to the very people who somewhere along the line support your work.
Right Bart, and that’s why non-union Toyota is turning a profit in Canada,but the Big 3 are lobbying congress for how many billions to avert bankruptcy?? Try again, fat union boz.
Maybe David you should read this story.Its stories like this are reasons why we have unions
WHEATLEY — Presteve Foods Ltd. was hit was more than 50 orders from Ontario Ministry of Labour inspectors Thursday covering a wide range of alleged defects in the fish processing plant’s equipment and buildings.
The orders cap a turbulent week in which the 67-year-old company owner Joe Pratas was charged Monday by Chatham-Kent police with six counts of sexual assault allegedly involving foreign female workers.
Labour inspectors called for a police escort to get into the plant Tuesday.
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Handout photo of the Bunk House where workers of Presteve Foods lived.
Handout photo, The Windsor Star
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Font:****A crowded bunkhouse adjacent to the plant used by 26 female workers from Thailand was then ordered closed Tuesday by Chatham-Kent building inspectors.
Canadian Auto Workers Local 444 president Rick Laporte is now calling for an investigation into how the federal Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program is supervised.
Laporte said he discovered foreign workers in the plant also had passports and other personal documents held by management and were being charged for housing that should have been free.
The bunkhouse should have housed no more than 20 workers although there were beds for 36, Laporte said.
Laporte understood the bunkhouse was closed mainly for safety reasons because of fire hazards and an alarm system, which while working, wasn’t an appropriate design for the building.
Presteve employs 34 women from Thailand. Two more are from Mexico and the rest of its 60 workers are Canadian. They work two shifts a day, mostly filleting fish, paid from $8.53 to $13.80 an hour.
Laporte, who met Thursday at the plant with company president Ulysses Pratas — son of the owner — said he was impressed with a “new attitude” of co-operation with the union and labour ministry.
Pratas has agreed to rehire two fired workers immediately and talks are progressing on rehiring two others within a few days, Laporte said.
The four workers had been fired following the union’s successful defeat in August of a decertification vote, Laporte said.
The son also said his father wouldn’t return to the plant or its office, to avoid any contact with workers, including some who alleged sexual assaults, Laporte said.
Pratas also agreed to form a health and safety committee, which had been disbanded, Laporte said. “At least it’s co-operation, so far,” the union leader said.
Company lawyer Claudio Martini said every effort is being made to comply promptly with the ministry orders.
“Ulysses, right now, is taking care of business,” Martini said. “He’s right on top of it.”
Martini didn’t think the company would have any difficulty complying with all orders within appropriate periods of time. “They will be dealt with; they will be complied with,” the lawyer said.
Labour ministry spokesman Bruce Skeaff said he couldn’t comment on its investigation until lawyers reviewed what information could be released.
“We can’t say anything that will compromise the police investigation,” Skeaff explained.
The plant’s problems could widen.
Laporte expects the Thailand government to look into treatment of its workers in the wake of the criminal charges and complaints of passports being seized.
Based on pay stubs he’s looked at, Laporte said significant amounts of wages were being withheld for housing, contrary to the seasonal worker regulations in Ontario.
The mostly female workers were being paid less than $9 an hour but on some pay stubs, Laporte said he saw a $140 deduction for housing. He’s still trying to sort out the reasons for various deductions.
Laporte said passports have now been returned to all foreign workers, and only two still have complaints outstanding about personal documents being held.
According to the Human Resources Canada website explaining the seasonal workers program, “employers are not permitted to take away and keep workers’ passports, medical cards or other personal documents for any reason. If this occurs, workers should contact their government liaison officer immediately.”
The program also requires employers to provide free housing, except in British Columbia. Employers who provide meals to their foreign workers are allowed to deduct $6.50 per day.
Laporte said the bunkhouse provided by Presteve had stoves and fridges so the workers could cook their own meals.
Laporte had been investigating grievances filed by the four fired workers when he said he was stunned by allegations of sexual assaults.
Without passports, other personal documents and with the amounts of money being withheld, it was difficult for the women to go anywhere, Laporte said.
The language barrier is a major problem in determining what’s been going on, Laporte said. Very few of the 34 women from Thailand speak any English at all and interpreters aren’t easy to find, he said.
With the bunkhouse closed, Laporte said the company agreed to put 13 women into a motel and transport them to work. Another 13 women using the bunkhouse have gone to friends’ homes or found other accommodation, Laporte said.
Still to be resolved by the union is a new contract, with a key issue being the lower wages being paid to the foreign workers, Laporte said. The last contract expired in 2006 but has been extended on an annual basis, he said.
Laporte said everybody in the workforce doing the same job should be paid the same. The company has said its survival depends on negotiating lower wage rates acceptable to foreign workers.
Well Bart you know David has never stepped foot in a factory because of the whinning he ALWAYS does on here about unions etc. Same old crap. If it wasn’t for unions there would be no labour laws in this country I don’t think David understands what unions have done for the “WORKERS” over the years like better work conditions, breaks, Health benefits etc. All David cares about is management and how to please them. Obvious from what the readers have said on here it seems like both National Auto Radiator and “the big bad union” aredoing something right?
Well Mr.David the dreamer business owner who cannot get a loan if you’ve been reading(if you can afford it?) the paper you would see Toyota is struggling also they cancelled a shift in Woodstock, their truck plants in the southern states have been reduced etc etc.
Right Guido- everyone is suffering because of the recession we are currently in. In response to David’s Toytota love affair, did you know that they make about the same wage as a Big 3 employee and good benefits too? Ok, if that’s the case then why would the workers at the Big 3 and their union be crippling the companies? I’ll note one advantage Toyota has over them- very very few retirees. Gm Ford and Chrysler have thouusands upon thousands of retired people still receiving benefits and pensions. Of course if it were up to David, he’d take those away to cut costs. The reason why we aren’t on a level playing field here and why Toyota, Honda etc have a cost advantage is becuase they manipulate their dollar’s value- a proven fact. Like I said in my other post- you don’t know the whole story so before you bash (seems to be a common trend in recent years), know ALL the facts. Competition is so tight these days for market share, no one can afford to put low quality vehicles in customer’s driveways. The one thing that cripples the domestic car makers the most and is totally bogus is the public’s perception. Things are very even nowadays and people need to see that.
And to agree with Paul- he’s right- unions have helped EVERYONE union or non-union with better working conditions. Unions started it back in the 30’s and 40’s and have progressed and made non-union workplaces follow suit to a point.
Thanks for listening!
You know what? If this city gets worse with unemployment because of your attitudes, it’ll be on your conscience not mine. Companies don’t want to set up shop in this city because of your attitudes. So, keep spouting your garbage until there’s no automotive jobs left in this city. Hope you sleep well at night knowing you’re putting more people out of work with your hardline sentiments. In fact, I hope there’s some poetic justice in this world and your destructive attitudes put you guys out of work. For you shoud reap what you sow.
Nice post David. First of all, I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t have any “certain” attitude that you refer to. I want more jobs in the city just as much as everyone and I don’t see where my comments would suggest otherwise. What I posted are cold-hard facts and reality. Yup, unions in general sometimes get a bad rap for everything and despite what you think they are not all about bleeding a company dry. Oh, and please explain to me how I or anyone else is putting people out of work- I’d like to hear this one. In fact, last time I checked, the auto industry has BY FAR lost the most jobs in this city so why don’t you tell that to those people? All I want to know is where was all of this attitude and hatred toward the manufacturing workforce 10-15 years ago? It seems like over the past 5-10 years there has been alot of dissention towards those people for whatever reason and they are the ones who have lost the most jobs? That’s what boggles my mind. Again, please explain in detail about the “attitudes” of union people and also in regards to your last statement- if all of those people were out of work, I’d bet you’d suffer and this city would turn into another Flint Michigan. Lastly, how do you know I am “one of those” people? Actually I am not but I do have several family members who are and I support them.
Read Guido’s first comment. He later said they are union, but his first comment is, “They have a reputation of mistreating their employees. ”
So, instead of the CAW believing in the company by saying they make a great, high quality product, the first thing he does is make a negative comment. The topic becomes why we need a union instead of promoting the company. This is a common thing with unions. It’s all about justifying the union. Big business is inherently evil and therefore we need a union. It’s this prejudice and bad vibe that turns customers off from dealing with that company. Which in turn means less demand for products and ultimately layoffs and plant closures.
You talk to anyone who works at Toyota and they’re gonna stand behind the company and say they make a great product and they believe in the company. That’s why they’re doing so well. They know that you get out of it what you put into it and they don’t want a negative union environment. It’s this negative union vs. management environment that causes the business to fall apart. Productivity goes down as union workers carry this negative attitude againt management. Expenses go up and new staff needs to be hired like a shop foreman and staff to deal with the union. It comes to the point where the company is losing money, and if they’re not being bailed out by the government the plant gets shut down.
How can you not see this? Union brainwashing?! Look around you. Union plants are getting shut down unless they’re being put on temporary life support with government aid. The Big 3 is asking for tens of billions of dollars from the government to avert bankruptcy from all the loses. Yet, the non-union plants in Canada like Toyota are turning a profit and not asking for government aid.
You are not entitled to a high paying job. It’s a priviledge to those who make a profitable product for the company. This is not a communist country. If you think you can do better, work somewhere else, start your own company or live by your wits and become a salesperson. Ask not what your company can do for you, ask what you can do for your company. A phrase to live by if you don’t want to see your company go under and lose your job.
David your so out of touch and undeducated.
FYI- The plant will be in Woodstock, Ontario, about 30 miles, or 50 kilometers, southwest of Toyota’s operation in Cambridge. The plant is expected to open in 2008 and will cost about 600 million Canadian dollars, or $487 million, including 125 million dollars in incentive money from the governments of Canada and Ontario.
Read the rest of the story and educate yourself:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/24/business/toyota.php
Here is another FYI:
Newser) – Even Toyota—with its array of popular gas-sipping vehicles—is struggling in a slumping global economy, according to the latest figures. The world’s No. 2 automaker today reported that earnings for the last quarter fell 28% to $3.05 billion from $4.2 billion a year ago, reports the AP. “We are facing a severe business environment,” said Toyota’s president.
Read this story here: http://www.newser.com/story/26878/us-woes-drive-toyota-profits-down-28.html
So three items you said:
No layoffs at Toyota their doing great- proved wrong!
No government funding Toyota does great without handouts- proved wrong!
No loss of profits Toyota is making money- proved wrong!
Some business person you are.
Wrong, you’ve twisted the facts and your arguments proves nothing:
1) The articles made no mention about layoffs at Toyota in Ontario.
2) Not the same thing. This is an apples to oranges comparison. The $125 million from the Ontario government is for opening a new second plant in Woodstock, not for their existing plant in Cambridge. The Big 3 are asking tens of billions from Congress to keep their existing unprofitable unionized plants open. Also, in regards to Ontario from the article, “Ford Motor of Canada was recently given 1 billion dollars to rework a 51-year-oldfactory near Toronto that makes minivans. General Motors of Canada has received 2.5 billion dollars for its operations in Oshawa, Ontario…”
We are talking about dozens of times of the amount of money that Toyota got just to keep the existing BIG 3 plants on life support. Toyota is not asking for money to keep their plants on life support. It’s not the same thing.
3) According to the article, Toyota saw a 28% drop in their net profit because of the high dollar. But, they are still turning a profit. THE BIG 3 IS NOT TURNING A PROFIT. That’s why they’re asking for handouts.
Geez, some business person YOU ARE. Is this what they teach you at union meets? But, you don’t need to know anything about business or care about it when you’re in the union. You just need to justify your counter-productive and counter-competitive unions with this specious nonesense until the plant is shut down. You’re digging your own grave, my friend.
You are a waste of time I will not bother. You have your head so far up you know where!
That’s just what I was gonna say about you.
Now that’s what I call solidarity!
To David
LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOL you are sooo out of touch with things. NOT EVERYBODY AT TOYOTA WILL STAND BEHIND THIER COMPANY.if you read newspapers David the machinst union were trying to unionize the cambridge plant back in april and toyota found a loophole around it it will be eventually become unionzed and they even have forums to talk about the bad work conditions at the ontario plant.The reason why the big three are asking for loans is because they need it to develop new technologies.
SO MR BUSINESS MAN EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU RANT ABOUT HOW BAD UNIONS ARE.There are plenty of average people who depend on the big three in the usa and canada,these people don’t give a rat’s a@$ about business people like you.They care about putting food on thier tables and supporting thier families.TOYOTA WILL NEVER EMPLOY MORE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THEN FORD CHRYSLER GM AND ALL THE SPINOFF JOBS
and you havent comment about the article about the BUSINESS OWNER WHO SEXUALLY ASSAULT HIS EMPLOYESS and if it wasn’t for the caw local 444 pratas would never of been charged.GEE I WONDER WHY YOU DIDNT RESPOND TO THE ARTICLE MAYBE ITS BECAUSE THE BIG BAD UNION HELPED THESE PEOPLE.UNIONS WERE BROUGHT IN FOR A PURPOSE TO DEAL WITH SCUM LIKE THAT.LIKE I SAID BEFORE All David cares about is management and how to please them.
The caw also has 250,000 members in Canada so does that mean David they should all loose thier jobs just because they ARE PART OF A UNION AND MAKE LIVING WAGES AND HAVE BENEFITS. ACCORDING TO YOU THEY SHOULD BECAUSE THEY DONT SUCK UP TO MANAGMENT LIKE YOU AND BECOME THE BOSSES PET.
Guido is right by the way Toyota will only have one shift going in woodstock.Its people like you David always blaming the WORKER FOR A COMANY’S PROBLEM that are killing this city.THE WORKER DOESN’T DECIDE WHAT TYPE OF VECHICLES THE COMPANY WILL SELL.THE BIG THREE HAVE HAD LOUSY MANAGEMENT FOR YEARS AND THATS WHY THEY ARE GETTING KILLED BY THE JAPANESE NOT BECAUSE OF THE WORKERS AND THIER UNION.REMEMBER DAVID TOYOTA AND HONDA BOTH PAY 30 BUCKS AN HOUR AND GOOD BENEFITS BECAUSE THE BIG THREE PAY THAT TO THIERS.
Hey David you should check this website out and register on the forum and let them know how much you hate unions and are jealous of what they earn.
http://www.autoworker.net/forums/index.php?act=idx
Right Paul, unions are not causing the problems here in Windsor. That’s why Windsor, once a very prosperous city, has the highest unemployment rate in the country Open your eyes for once instead of continuing to let yourself be brainwashed by union leaders trying to justify their union. It’ll be your downfall.
As for the fish processng plant article, once again you’ve stated something that’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if the plant was union or non-union, they were in violation of provincial labour laws and were charged by the Ministry of Labour. The owners would be charged and shut down by government inspectors regardless of whether there was a union there or not.
Just because a plant is not in a union, it doesn’t mean a company can opt out of Canadian labour laws. They can’t. No one is above the law in this country and the law has to be followed in any case. It just takes a simple anonymous phone call to the Ministry of Labour to have a government worker come down and investigate.
You haven’t shown anything to justify the union here. In fact, it was worse in this case because the plant was unionized and how long did the union leaders turn a blind eye to it? They have 60 foreign workers there. 36 being bunked in onsite housing? Numerous sexual assaults occuring there. This didn’t happen over the course of one day. In fact, this sounds like union retaliation over the decertification vote in August.
of course it matters you IDOIT if it wasnt for the union the owner what of gotten away with it.OPEN YOUR EYES JACKA@#.NO DAVID ITS JEALOUS LIKE YOU THAT ARE KILLING THIS CITY YOU ARE SOOO JEALOUS OF WHAT OTHERS MAKE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A UNION and you sit on blogs like this whinning about unions and how its the union’s fault for the city’s woes hahah you are such a loser so jealous of others.OPEN YOUR EYES UNFAIR TRADE IS TO BLAME FOR THE CITY’S WOES NOT UNIONS.IF IT WAS UP TO BUSINESS IDOITS LIKE YOU WE ALL WOULD BE MAKING 10 BUCKS AN HOUR WITH NO BENEFITS.THINK WHAT YOU WANT BUT YOU ARE A MINORITY AS FAR AS SUPPORTING BIG BUSINESS IN THIS CITY.
Paul, you are the biggest brainwashed retard I’ve ever met. Go back to kindergarten and get your diploma. If you represent the majority of people in unions, then it’s no wonder why this city is going down the tubes. I hope you get what you deserve and join the unemployment lines like some of your fellow brainwashed retards who share the same attitude that companies don’t need to turn a profit and be competitive to exist and that you are owed a high paying job regardless of how much you hate the company.
Just keep doing what you’re doing and judgment will come and you’ll be knocked off your arrogant pedestal soon enough. Then, you’ll be wondering why you can’t find another high paying job like you’ve got now. You’ll destroy yourself and then we’ll see who has the last laugh, jackas-s.
Oh,and the owner wouldn’t have gotten away with it if there wasn’t a union, Paul, because what he was doing was ILLEGAL. But, I guess you’re too stupid to understand that.
What was!! an entertaining and intellectual debate has become rather sad. Opinions and there variance is what makes our society such a beautiful thing. You are all having difficulty realizing the “big picture” and your egos should be left out of this so called debate (my oppinion of course). As you ramble on with your well placed sarchasm and genuine love for each other (sarchasm inserted, lol) your missing the point. Whether you believe in the unionization of workers or the development for the corperate machine in there difficulties in competing globaly with non unionized, non developped and non democratic countries, know this!! As you live your lives, the rich are getting very rich, and the middle class that have the time to read and comment to such trivial jargen is dying into poverty or joining the elite. We are all together on this beautiful land we call Canada and this is no time nor is it the venue for such class based 30’s style boxing. David, I must say that I feel for you and the opposition that your incountering and respect that greatly. I also know that you feel cornered and until now you have handle it with great finess. I must say that your “to stupid to understand” comment should be left for children debating lunch sandwich preferences in schoolyards. That goes for the rest of you. Freud would paint David as someone who has a skewed oppinion based on his wanting to be able to make as much money as you with as little effort and/or feels drained from trying to make money with the current unionized class. Meaning more pay and less work and schooling with the benefits making money based on corperations “Big bucks”. He is angry that random and many times less intellegent people can make a higher incomes than him and or the same income without as much effort. Your comments only aggrivates him and well………….here we are. Your all embarassing yourselves. You make to much money on a class level and it effects the lower woking order as a hole (in general)……hell, I make too much money and that in a nutshell, is why companies are going abroad to make a profit. Can you not see a level of common sense and reason in David’s thoughts. Can there not be a balance in oppinons or are we destine to follow one sheperds (non biblical ref) path and not able to understand what is truely happening to us as a whole? We are not our past and we are not our parents. The union isn’t the problem, we are. Now can we all say sorry and thank Andrew for his social contribution to our community with this amazing site? Now, lets all chill out and let the world rape us of our resources. We should all complain about gas prices next and our inaction to due anything about the fact that the rich never post a loss and as the US buckles down for the next deppression, let us all thank China for purchasing failing US companies and institutions. Great olympics eh!! Social government can make a mean bullshit sporting event, eh! It will be unsurpased and so will there ranking in the world economicaly. P.S. I am an active union member!!
*claps* good stuff!
i appologized to andrew 29 posts ago lol
Right, Timmy- people like David are always quick to point the finger at the union and its members and in all actuality, they are the lowest point on the corporate ladder. With that said, they have no say in what is developed, sold and bought…but somehow it’s always their fault. As posted above, Toyota is paying $30/hr with good benefits too so how is it that the union’s overpayed force drives the companies into the ground? As I said above, the huge retiree expense is a major advantage for Toyota et. al. But that’s right- there has been 100 years worth of the dedicated employees who have contributed to their respective communities wheras Toyota and Honda have not until recently. This debate will never be a neverending tug-of-war so this is my last $0.02 on this issue…Ciao!!
I see you missed or diagree with my point. I agree with your tug of war position although you may have given more than 2 cents. NOW THANK ANDREW!!!!!!!!!!!!! and breath in………and out………and in………and out. Your not wrong, you simply lack the ability to understand the entire picture based on you obvious involvement in Windsor’s union movement. Maybe some travelling and a nice tea would clear the chalk of the board of your mind.
Don’t get me wrong and I must clarrify that I am also a Union brother as you already know. Things are changing at such a pace and let’s just say that the Geniva convention does not imply. No rules means harder action and people like David aren’t bread for such action. We are, unfortunately a dying breed and the weak will surrender and the elite will conquer. In order to compete with contries like China we have begun to adopt there philosophies. I was working last week when a bus load of 40+ Chinese buisness people entered my work facility. There english (engrish) was impecable and the hand shake rather clinical. Stay strong and don’t let people like David bum you out. The world is a vampire! Now can we all enjoy the historical contribution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! In…..out……in…..out……in.
“engrish” lol! fa rah-rah-rah-raahh, rah ra rah rah! christams story anyone? no? lol
this post is going to go on for 40 more……….and i’m sure it will continue at some point in the near future too timmy. thanks for the effort though lol
damn… I’m out of popcorn again… brb
I don’t mind the debate but please try and be civil to each other. Calling other people stupid won’t get you anywhere.
As David can probably tell you, he’s the only person who ever caused me to close comments on a post before. He’s caused it twice before, and this one is getting close to becoming his third one.
Some people, just can’t argue with, as they’re never wrong…
Thanks for the kind words Timmy and Aaron.
heh heh heh you’re welcome
Ok, I’m breathing deep now Timmy…back to the historical side of things. We don’t want dear David to close out another post now do we?? Keep up the good work Andrew!