Once upon a time, South Cameron Ave. ran all the way Tecumseh Rd. near the Michigan Central Train Station to Howard Avenue and Kenilworth Race Track. South Cameron hugged the rail line the entire way. Interesting to note, that Grand Marais also crossed the tracks back then too.
Today carved up by the Expressway and shopping plazas, the road terminates at Dougall and picks up again behind the roundhouse centre for a short distance. The line in red shows the original path of the road, overlaid on a current aerial view.
Looking at the view in Google Earth, it appeared that part of the road might still be in existence in the area between Dougall and the Expressway. A line of telephone poles in a parking lot mark the route of the old road.
An old sign frame on the pole, this probably once held a speed limit sign.
Slightly overgrown, and chopped off my the expressway, there was still a concrete road there.
Far from anything that would need it, a lamppost sits in the middle of some overgrown brush.
Concrete curbs mark the driveway to something long gone. This was near the light, maybe it was once a gas station?
Another view of the light.
A final view of the ghost road. As I’ve said before, more history right under our noses.
Interesting aerial view. Shows the exact route of the DRTP proposal which is the shortest and least invasive route to the 401 for transports. No expropriation required and tunneled if needed. You can see from this photo how little the DRTP interferes with traffic of any kind.
Great work and discovery, makes one wonder why the road was closed.
I recall being hauled down South Cameron daily as a little kid. We lived near there. It was a busy road prior to the construction of the Xpway. I recall too the start of E.C. Row, as I lived right off 3rd Concession of which E.C. Row became.
As for the DRTP route……….of course it makes sense. It always has. Even if I lived back in South Windsor, I would still support it.
Which begs the question why didn’t the city approve of expanding the train tunnel WITHOUT the trucks? Is it to stick it to Mike Hurst and screw the citizens as long as city hall get their revenge?
ME, they (council) still believe the Train Tunnel option is a ruse for Trucks. I think Bill Marra supported an exploratory study for the train option but he was b-slapped by the other marionettes and it faded away.
I assume the road was closed because it dead ended at the expressway, and the 45 degree crossing at Dougall must have been suicide to try and cross. 🙂
Great post. The few times I’ve driven down what’s left of South Cameron it seemed like a ghost road, crumbling and empty (except for me). It seems strange to me that this other section was simply cut off from access and there it sits.
A very interesting post. Nice work Andrew.
This is behind what was the funeral home? I recall that was once a Burger King, but it failed (weird location).
This is a very neat find.
I used to work at Preney Print and Litho, the brown wood sided building next to the ex-funeral home location. Preney’s building was once a full service (Esso?) station, with service bays, show room for tires and other auto stuff and I think a car wash. The place had a full basement for stock.
I used to drive back onto that old road to pile up skids of paper for recycling and empty pallets.
The funeral home was originally built as a Burger King, Woodall Golf was in there for(e) a bit
after Zehrs/Superstore built on the old driving range.
Thanks guys! While out there shooting, we were trying to determine which one was the Burger King. The old pint shop has the ghost of a gas pump island out front. When it was an Esso I wonder if there was access to South Cameron out the back… humm…
Andrew, I think there was an outlet to South Cameron back of there………..if I recall there was a slip road behind the Riv (Riviera Hotel and Tavern…now that place would be an interesting post from days gone past) and then the present version of South Cameron continues past the Kenilworth development to Howard Avenue.
As always great input from the readers and the host. Thanks to all.
I’ve been meaning, on a trip back to Windsor, to go look at the ghost golf course that Woodall’s used to connect too. I golfed there a few times when I was 10 (before the very idea of that “sport” gave me the creeps, as it does now) in the 1980s. The first hole was on the west side of Ouellette where the Supercentre went in, then you had to either cross the street, or walk around under the overpass, to the rest of course, which is still there. 8 or 9 holes, and a little pond. Probably can still find the greens and tee areas. Seems crazy that people climbed the embankment to cross the busy street with their clubs, but they did all the time.
Maybe i’ll do that in a couple weeks when I come down.
Shawn, you’ve thrown me for a loop. I grew up in the area and thought I knew it well, even been all over in that thicket from my childhood…. I don’t remember having to climb over Ouellette to get to the other side, wasn’t there a passage way underneath? Now this is going to drive me nutz. It will be tricky to get back there now. The old way from why I was a child was from the section where Memorial drive ran thru Jackson Park, and a hole in the fence by the tracks, but I understand that is all blockaded off from even pedestrian access. I’d love to snoop around back there too, for old-times.
Oh BTW that was a very busy Burker King in its day, Shawn, before the median along Dougall was built making car access in/out very inconvenient in a commercial section that’s already unwalkable and no nearby houses either.
It’s interesting that those sorts of Burger King’s came around for the car, and were killed by the fickle car.
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There was the passage underneath yes — but I think people took a short cut over top. There was a worn path up and down the embankment.
I think you can get to it via McDougal and the tennis stuff there. At least on google it looks easy — haven’t been back there in years and years.
And so Burger King simply kept moving further south–to the spot close to Woolco–and once that plaza was redeveloped–further south again.
Shawn, the last time I was in that area the pond was still there…leeches and all but the grass is now wild and more trees have grown. A nice oasis in the middle of the city if you ask me.
My recollection is that Woodalls was closer to downtown bounded by Dougall, Jackson Park and Victoria, across the street from Value Village – I just found it again on Google Earth- you can still clearly see the greens if you zoom in…more history under our noses to quote Andrew
the location Andrew has pointed out is further south and doesn’t relate to Woodalls- the Burger King was a favourite haunt near the current site of U-haul- also in the same area as the Riviera Hotel
and yes this is the ideal route for the border crossing but the DRTP lost the PR war…
and it’s only a coincidence that city owns the tunnel…
I recall this road vividly. At one time it did run as shown in the map but I recall a modification so that it would not intersect Dougall at such a sharp angle. Prior to the building of the expressway I used to take EC Row (aka 3rd Concession) from near Banwell to Howard, then across Howard to S. Cameron, across Dougall and back onto S. Cameron. Depending on time of day and traffic, I would either take 3rd Concession to Huron Line or slip back onto S. Cameron then onto Campbell to Tecumseh then to Huron Line. This was the quickest East West route prior to the expressway and avoided all those railway crossings on Tecumseh Road. I don’t recall Grand Marais crossing the tracks.
On another note, I really don’t understand why the DTRP plan to use the two tubes for trucks was not better received given that it had many merits. Eliminating most of the truck traffic from the bridge would solve many problems. The route proposed ties in to 401 and EC Row and has room to marshall the trucks. Who knows…
Cool, now that makes sense. I never knew how that pond got there. I work in a nearby building and walk past that wooded area all the time. IM is a great resource.
Zalev’s sure is pretty in that aerial shot!
I wonder how many lost balls are still in that pond.
Chris> Woodalls was indeed where you think it was, but when they built the erstwhile Supercentre Woodalls pro shop moved to the location by the ghost road, where the Burger king was, before the King moved up (er down, south) to where it is now, just past the Rivera. Which itself is where that little ugly plaza is by Grand Maris. Whew.
JM> I recall that route in to the mall, along EC Row, when i was very small.
Why was EC Row known as a concession? Aren’t most essex co. concession north-south?
Shawn, no..concessions can run East and West. Believe it or not, a good part of South Windsor was Sandwich West before a 1966 annexation. We lived at Mark and 3rd Concession which was Sandwich West prior to that year.
Shawn, concessions are a strange thing. It all comes down to who/when (French or English) did the survey and what was used as a reference point.
Under the original French survey, ribbon farms were staked out along the Detroit River. At this time there was basically only one township, Sandwich (Sandwich East, West and South were later developments as were all the other Townships). So, basically along the Detroit River, the first concession road if you wish would have been the trail along the river and the first concession would have been the lands between that road and Tecumseh Road. Technically, Tecumseh Road was ‘the second concession’. So, the tract of land south of Tecumseh Road and to the third concession was the ‘second concession’ lands; the lands from Third Concession Road to County Road 42 is referenced as the third concession when looking at lot designations. Since Sandwich encompassed the future East and West, Third Concession Road ran from Banwell (pretty much as far East in this survey) to Huron Line. When you look at the whole county map, you have to wonder how they decided on some of the numbering as well; for some of the concessions in Maidstone and Rochester, they increment in opposite directions (and run North/South). The townships south of County Road 8 (Colchesters, Gosfields and Mersea) use Lake Erie as their base point so concessions run East/West. Tilbury West Malden and Anderdon use the river so their concessions run North/South. Tilbury West and Tilbury North have East/West concessions. I really think this was done to confuse city folk!
Great info, JM. !
While we have you here, seeing as you seem to be a bit of an expert of sorts on local street naming convention and history, would you happen to know if there is a story behind the naming of “Disputed Road” in Lasalle? A name like that must have an interesting story behind it and I’ve always wondered what it might be.
John, sorry I have not come across any info on Disputed Road but I have often wondered the same thing! I will keep looking. By the way, part of the Third Concession (the Sandwich East portion; I’m not sure if the portion between Dougall and Huron ever got this designation) was renamed EC Row after a 50’s Chrysler executive.
I’ve heard the story about how disputed road obtained its name. I don’t know if it’s true or not. Oddly enough, I was listening to a Detroit radio station and they were having people call in about weird road names. A woman from Amherstburg called in to talk about disputed road. She said that because it lies between two different municipalities both of these towns wanted to call it something different. They couldn’t agree on anything. So, to stop the frightening they eventually settled for ‘disputed’.
Thanks Danielle. That sounds funny, but likely. I wonder how long ago that was? That would have been Sandwich West and Sandwich South I guess. Back in the days when they didn’t have arenas and interurban transit to bicker about. 😉
I was told that Disputed Road was so named because the original seigneuries began at the river and worked going backwards (x feet back, ongoing). Eventually they intersected – hence “Disputed Road” as they disputed who owned the land!
If you reference Windsor Border Region by Ernest J Lajeunesse (1960) and Garden Gateway to Canada by Neil F Morrison (1954) you will find how complicated the whole process actually was. The former contains actual extracts of survey reports and difficulties that were encountered. (the latter is very good reading with nice pictures!) One such was finding land already occupied and improved without the benefit of grant. from what I can see so far, I can’t see why two municipalities would have quarreled over this road as it does not seem to be in any boundary. Sandwich East, West and South at one time were simply Sandwich. Divisions came later on and this road was not on a boundary between Sandwich West and South. It is possible that Sandwich South wanted the boundary West of where it was placed but I would only be speculating.
Surveys were done as more land was needed and usually began from the water fronts extending to the interior of the County.
Some of this really gets interesting when you read the transactions and orders to the surveyors. And let us not forget the how land was transferred from the Native community to the Crown. There were a lot of strange deal and some reversals when lands were granted by Native Chiefs to individuals; that was not tolerated as lands had to first be transferred to the Crown before any grants were made. I am getting off track but I will continue to look for more evidence on this name.
I thought Disputed Road was really Greenlink vs. DRIC (wink, wink..)
I was told that two brothers were fighting over the land a long time ago hense the name of the street “disputed”. Is that the real story? who knows? maybe the Broderick family would know since they were the owners at the time. As far as I know they are still around.
WOW! golf course right there and you’d never ever know it…..oh how i’m falling for this site!!!
can anyone tell me what that road is in the old map, running along the north side of the tracks? is it just a service road for the railway, or some kind of access to the up and coming neighbourhood of Zalev? lol you can still see it’s remains in that google shot.
it looks as if it could be matched up with provincial LONG before the track sidings got so big.
you know what….those remains are actually the track bed for that second rail bridge. f’rgot all about it. but still curious where that road went. burried under the rust i imagine?
Aaron, that road isn’t named on my map… But you are right, traces of it can still be seen today.
DISPUTED ROAD IN LASALLE ONTARIO
This information was gathered with considerable assistance.
Disputed Road runs north south from a point just south of Normandy Street until it reaches the Middle Side Road boundary with Amherstburg. The road is one side of a triangle of land, with the other side being Huron Church Road.
This triangular-shaped piece of territory is nestled in between the seigniorial rang system of land survey of the old French regime, and the British system of grid development in a north-south pattern of development. Some suggest that this pie-shaped section was in dispute between parties in the 19th century related to ownership boundaries. Thus it was the “disputed roadâ€. This survey theme was referred to by Professor Trevor Price (see below).
I tried the Amherstburg Echo for information and was referred to the Marsh Collection Society. That was a dead end. I asked the LaSalle Silhouette for a suggestion and was directed to Joe Durocher, a former LaSalle councilor and high school teacher who runs Durocher Farms.
He said that the road relates to the family history of his great grandfather, also Joseph Durocher, who was elected to Sandwich West Council in 1885 and served as Reeve for 10 years. He was 6’6†tall and weighed some 300 pounds. Council wanted the road to bend to and join the sixth concession road, while Durocher wanted to have the road join the fifth concession. A major council dispute occurred, and Durocher’s view prevailed.
Rural township politics does have a context to consider. In the 1880s and 1890s the context for relations between French and English citizens and farmers must be accounted for, given the facts of the Riel Rebellions in western Canada, the industrialization of traditional rural French communities, and the rise of English language education and the impact of English Catholic leadership on French Canadian parishes, including those in the area of Sandwich West and Windsor.
My reference books (Morrison, Lajeunesse, Neal) and my 1888 county atlas have not yielded any information about this road dispute. There may be records at the LaSalle town hall or at the planning department.
Professor Trevor Price suggests that a book by John Clarke, professor of geography at Carlton University, “Land Power & Economics on the Frontier of Upper Canada†may provide a survey context for such French-English situations, and the land speculation of politicians. There was lots of that going on. McGill Queen’s Press published it in 2000. Another atlas by Paul Vandal (Wayne State Press) may have references to such issues of survey also. I have not accessed either reference.
I give up! Folklore… fact… who knows?
JBM – Thanks for the update, and for the leg work on that local mystery…
That is wierd I’m not going there
PLEASE…Can anyone identify the building that’s in the background of the photo with the caption that reads “an old sign frame on the pole, this probably once held a speed limit sign” ??? Also the building on the left, in the distance, at the end of the road ???
thanks
Annie, that building in the background is the back of the Canadian Wholesale Club and UHaul on Grand Marais W.
whats up this site rocks I came upon it a few yrs ago and its only gotten better,im curious as to where this pond is for the golf course on oulette,i think I see greens in the big open tree’d lot
Yeah the pond is right in the middle of the empty lot. It has trees around it. If you look on google earth you can still see it. My friends and I used to play the course a couple of times a week when we were about 8-9 years old. It was a par 3 and great for kids. The driving range was right where the super store is now. I think the first and ninth hole were on the west side of Ouellette and 2-8 were on the east side of the road. We always walked across the busy, busy road with our clubs. It was very dangerous. My wife and I were driving over the overpass last week and I showed here where the course was and how we used to cut across. She said it is a wonder no one was killed crossing the road.
Duncan posted this in another thread about Dougall super highway. If you follow Ouellette you can see the overpass and the old Woodall’s par 3 and driving range. I spent many days here when I was young. Zoom in and you can get a pretty good view of it. I remember the big red and white bullseye target at the back of the range. http://141.217.90.50/photos/part2/wayne/1967/4583-2069.pdf