Today we wrap up the downtown series with a tour of “The Avenue South District” or whatever moronic fake brand has been assigned to the area south of Wyandotte.
Junky, messy tags.
The results of harmless partying?
Long time downtown retailer Doctor Disc. The only business now left in this vintage brick building.
Painting bricks are second in my list of architectural crimes. At least it’s not stuccoed.
Vacant
Vacant
The former Jokers Building. We covered it in depth back in September. Around the time I covered it they went to town stripping out the copper and metal from the interior.
A peak inside reveals that it is gutted, and it also looks like the enemy of buildings everywhere – water – has worked its way inside.
Another vacancy…
…and another.
The vacant bingo parlours also have snow covered sidewalks. Someone owns these buildings, why are the sidewalks not cleaned?
Shameful. Allowing the sidewalks to remain in this condition shows a lack of respect for the downtown and the residents who have to walk these streets. Where is the City? These should be cleared and billed back. As you can see above the building is “SOLD” so there is a new owner, no excuses for this.
This turd was built in the early 90’s. After only a few years of occupancy, the CIBC closed the branch and the building sits vacant. I would bet that at this point in time the building has been vacant longer than it was ever occupied. It’s a disgrace that one of the key intersections in this city in the heart of downtown, has a building this ugly on it. In my opinion I would love to see the building levelled and the entire Wyandotte St. frontage redeveloped.
More tagging. No excuse for this either. In a prominent location on Ouellette, this should be covered over immediately.
That’s all. Leave your shooters and empty smokes laying around and head back to Michigan. Thanks for littering and treating our core as your playground! See you again tonight I’m sure…
And the cycle repeats…
Yuck, that pink building makes me shudder every time I see it. Wasn’t it formerly one of Windsor’s infamous rub and tug hangouts? They should have a property standards by-law that storefront owners can’t use certain colours.
Why did the new owners give up on doing something with the Joker’s building? Were they declined on the demolition permit? Geez, what a mess they left.
The CIBC building is another carpet bagger special. I think I remembered seeing it listed for $2.4 million or some other exorborant amount. Haven’t seen it listed online lately. I guess the agent gave up on advertising it.
WOW I had no idea there were so MANY vacancies downtown. It truly disgusts me, and I mean this is right in the CORE…downtown. It’s not as if these empty buildings are on the outskirts of our city, where no attention is usually drawn, they are in FULL view, and everyday people with a variety of statuses in life see the despair, and seemly ignore it? It’s very disheartening to know our elected officials consume their time with road blocking the bridge project, and similar meaningless causes, while our core falls further into its demise. I know full well our elected officials probably pass any one of these atrocities daily, and yet nothing is being done to rectify the situation. I mean at the least, you’d think citations would be issued to those who cannot even keep their properties clean, and safe. In my opinion, by not doing anything about the situation, council is condoning it, and they cannot prove otherwise. If they weren’t, then people would be held responsible for their properties, and actions. Really, this series that you’ve taken the time to show us, should very well put ALL OF COUNSIL to shame, and shine a spot light on that wonderful King Eddie of ours. I will most definitely not be voting to have him re elected. How can he even show his face in this city, and have a smile, when the very core of his city or so he proclaims….is turning into a deserted ghetto by day, and tweeny haven by night. As John always says, it’s a matter of civic pride, and there clearly is none shown for our downtown, at least by council. Get new leadership for this city, that is the obvious start, as the current tribe of folks for lack of nicer terms, is outdated, and not focused on what people REALLY want. They all have their own agenda’s, and that’s a sad truth.
My goal next winter is to call 311 on a regular basis on any property that doesn’t clean their sidwealk in the core. I hope everyone else does too. Apathy is what causes building owners to think they can get aways with minimal maintenace.
I understand the frustration toward council, but does something as simple as keeping your property clean and shoveling snow in our pedestrian dependent city centre have to be enforced by The Man? I guess so! But this hand-holding can’t go on forever. Something has to “click” downtown about the overspending and over-thinking of its problems and how little it’s actually accomplished versus the results some teamwork among the property owners and shop keepers would do. The BIA has this “clean team” but you can’t expect a handful of cleaners to keep up with the desecration that occurs on the weekends downtown. Too many square feet of sidewalks and roads for that. On our walk past a particular bar there were hundreds of cigarette butts and garbage on the ground from the reveling of the night before. Does Eddie Francis have to come down personally with a broom and dustpan? Would it have killed the business owner to send someone out to pick up and throwaway that shooter tube and cigarette package before locking the bar at the end of the night? Even the window covering issue, it’s great the BIA is ‘looking into uniform window coverings’ for vacancies but that doesn’t mean the owners can’t take a few minutes out of their day to do their part while they are waiting for these coverings to become reality. What message does this apathy send the citizens who are expected to be the savior of downtown?
now here’s a novel idea. not that I figure it would be adopted here but some people do care.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/METRO/803140357/1409/METRO
I like the jokers picture… Site Available … but feel feel to raze the classic retro building!!!
$2.4 million seems like a good deal. I guarnantee you couldn’t build it for that…
As far as I know the demolition permit for Jokers/Mothers was approved. The building looks like it has been stripped and abated. I believe that demolition permits once issued are valid for one year. It was last September when they were removing all the copper and everything from the building. So there is still a while to go before the demolition permit runs out.
I’m not sure what the plan is for the site, but I know it was pruchased with the intention of redeveloping the site.
Pink Building>
There used to be (in the early-to-mid-1990s) a nice little diner in the front. Called “Antonettes”? That might be wrong. We held a benefit there in 1993, and it was nice. It linked to a big back room that fronts onto Pelissier that was the home of the Maltese Club of Windsor in the mid to late 1970s. Until the early 90s, there was still a Maltese cross on that side of the building.
If commercial appraisals for mortgage financing were based on historical or replacement cost, then maybe. But, they’re not. Appraisals are based on comparable sales and net incomes either of which do not justify that princely sum. It’s the old stock market gambler’s syndrome, where someone bought Nortel at $100/share and it fell and they kept holding onto it because it never went back to $100 and it kept falling until it reached a buck a share and they still hold onto for years thinking it’ll go back to $100 and it never gets higher than $10 a share . If they want to play the stock market, play it. But, a graveyard of empty buildings affects everyone else in downtown and isn’t helping our downtown core. In comparison to downtown real estate, the Canada Building is an 11 storey office building that been on the market for years for $2.2 million, far superior architecturallly, and the Falom Building, a 9 storey tower for $2 million. Both buildings are much larger than the CIBC building and partially rented and probably have been on the market for the same amount of years. Based on that, the CIBC building is way overpriced. If they place it way above market value and it’s been vacant for years, it’s just carpet bagging. Plain and simple.
Thanks Shawn – that might be the one I was thinking of. Ikea runs a shuttle bus to and from the subway stop right?
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David, the CIBC has a couple of advantages. The location is prime real estate, on the waterfront. Plus there are two long term tennents. The Windsor Club occupies the top floor, and the Passport office is in there as well.
As for the Canada Building, the report was passed at the last Heritage Comittee Meeting to designate the building. I’m not certain that it is for sale anymore.
Yes, that’s the one. “The Ikea Bus” — a little “short bus.” All the carless downtown people take that route up to the IKEA. On a saturday or sunday the Yonge Subway south is full of ikea bags. And still, the p-lot is always full.
Ikea (like an Apple Store) is one of those places you get a sense of the speed and size of the economy.
That location is proof that Big Box, Mass Transit and Urban Setting can work – if there is a desire to.
With that being said, I would love to have one down in the Windsor area.
Sorry, I guess there’s some confusion here. I was referring to the one at Wyandotte and Ouellette The caption under the picture says “CIBC closed the branch and the building sits vacant”, so I referred to at as the CIBC building. The waterfront building sold for, I believe $4.3 million last year, and it’s definitely worth it because of it’s size and waterfront location and it’s mostly rented. No dispute there.
I have lived in Windsor most of my life and cannot belive the way downtown looks, I have slowly seen it deteriorate (more rapidly over the past couple of years) to a place that resembles Beriut, its embraassing Thank-you for posting these photos this week you have really opened my eyes and everyone on ccity consuill should be embarassed for this instaed of worrying about a fucking bridge that we will never see in the next 20 years and the new arena (that was not built downtown) dont get me started on that!
The Canada Building is still listed for sale, as it has been for the past decade. The rents don’t justify the price, but I think it’s certainly a better pick than a lot of the other buildings out there. http://www.icx.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fPage%3d3%26Mode%3d0%26vs%3dSearchAll%26ptgid%3d2%26ci%3dwindsor%26pro%3d2%26st%3douellette%26mp%3d0-0-%26mrt%3d0-0-0%26trt%3d2%26rpmu%3d-1%26ld%3d0%26o%3dA%26of%3d1%26ps%3d10%26uts%3d0-0%26fpud%3d1%26frntd%3d1%26lsu%3d1%26mls%3d%26mxls%3d&Mode=0&PropertyID=6514325
Sorry David – I mixed the CIBC buildings… 🙂
The one you were talking about is ugly. I bet the most valuable part of that porperty is the parking lot.
It’s not just downtown that’s becoming an embarrassment. Tecumseh Road East and West, Walker Road, McDougall and Howard Avenue aren’t doing much better than Ouellette. Meanwhile, Tecumseh, Lakeshore and LaSalle have never looked better. I wonder what they’re doing right and we’re doing wrong over here in “The City of Roses.”
George, if you think stripmalls, oceans of asphallt, more pole signs than trees, and being servant to the almight car is better than you’re right! Its just great out ther in the burbs!!
The only thing that the suburbs and county is doing right is taking advantage of extremely short sighted land use policies that saw cheap land. Tecumseh and Lasalle’s house bldg.
The City decimated downtown and decided its fate when it subsidized commercial development off of Central. Had they had proper land use policies allowed the proper costs associated to that development fall on the builders and tenants, downtown would still be fine. Had they put the proper cost to develop the large commercial bldgs on Ouellette near Eugenie, Downtown would be fine
But just like all of these pictures, we know the mistakes of the past, no matter how much you jam them down our throats, to somehow think that this assessment of the situation is making those somehow better understand the situIation simply gives somje sort of false sense of superiority over everyone else. I’m not trying to attack or offend, its just that claiming that some of us don’t know the state of downtown is arrogant to me.
Those bldg owners whose buildings you ridicule made their mistakes because no design guidelines or standards existed for downtown. Even now, the BIA’s design standards are only optional instead of mandatory.
The more important questions are what do we do now and where do we go from here. Highlighting all the problems only serves to deter new businesses and residents. Promoting the positives to get people to try to come back and having a vision for the future is the only way I know to get people to come back. I also believe that continued assessments such as yours only serve to negate the work that I do
Maybe so, but I don’t like having people piss in my ear and tell me it’s rain.
Admittedly there are many factors that have lead to what we see above, but I feel it’s my duty to show the negative side of the coin. Everything downtown isn’t super awesome. I am sorry if you don’t like what my camera lens captured, but the fact of the matter is all the pictures above were shot in only a few hours of walking around. No amount of breaking streets off into “districts” and making slick marketing videos will change that either.
I guess the difference is since I don’t own a business down there I don’t feel the need to sugarcoat the situation. I don’t have a need to pretend everything is fine.
Downtown is pretty f*cked, it needs a lot of help, more help than a BIA can give and no amount of shitty pictues or snide commentary is going to make or break anything down there.
Now you’ll have to excuse me, as I’ve got to get ready to go out. I’m off to an event at the Cleary. You know that whole supporting downtown thing…
The most important point made and referenced a few times is that the property owners are most of the blame here. I hope they don’t exercise the same lack of respect for the front of their homes that they do for the front of their shops. Want more business…shovel the snow. Want more business, clean up the tags. Want more business clean up the busted glass. Want more business pick up the trash immediately. Want more business scrape off the gum. Want more business pick up the cigarrette buts. Who, in their right adult mind would want to be caught dead downtown let alone patronize it? The irony in all of this is that even the kiddies are starting to realize that the downtown is a filthy cesspool. When they are gone the wise leaders of the Downtown Maze or whatever its called will undoubtedly blame it on the economy or some such thing. The chickens are coming home aren’t they.
I almost forgot. Great piece/series Andrew.
Boscariol, Andrew’s whole point on these Downtown posts is that you can’t perfume a pig. Your points on many issues and directional questions are well taken but even you have a business out Tecumseh way if I am not mistaken. And the ‘up with people’ attitude can only go so far. I only post as a potential wallet/customer that may patronize a business downtown now or in the near future. My decision as of right now is not to. Other areas of Windsor will lead the way. And that is where my money will go.
If anything, this five part photo series was fairly balanced, moreso than the other side of the fence which only wants to see the good and pretend the bad can be overlooked for the sake of not scaring away investors.
This is actually very ironic too…. In the last five days, we’ve also had “rammed down our throats” positive highlights such as Dr. Disc, a one-of-a-kind record and CD store, Windsor’s landmark Armories, a nod to Milk and the Marathon Ethiopian restaurant, feature respectable strip featuring a Thai and Indian restaurant as well as a high end men’s clothier, and Lazare’s, as well as an enthusiastic recommendation for the used bookstore, Works On Paper, acknowledgment of WSO’s Juno nomination, and a highlight of a Korean market…. to name just a few ways Andrew (and some of the commenters) actually did a better job highlighting and promoting the hidden/overlooked cultural gems downtown has to offer than DWBIA’s flashy video did in creating an illusion of a ‘vibrant’ district that is easily shattered by a two hour walk around downtown.
BTW, I would also add friendly Elias Deli & Eatery, Inklings Books, as well as Felix Fashions to the “assets” column.
Bottom line – clean up the pigsty, stop fixating on the so-called “entertainment” component, and show the average citizen there is a safe and clean place for him or her on the streets of downtown. If Mark even conceded to that much, I’d gladly grab a broom and sweep right alongside of him. But the “up with the citizens” attitude (sorry to steal the phrase from another commenter) has got to go if the downtown BIA wants support of the people.
I would like to think that most of the readers and commenters on here are fairly intelligent people. People who have a brain and can think for themselves.
If I was being a BS artist and only showing the turds picked out of a sea of pearls I would expect some flack. The fact of the matter is I shot so many photos that I had to break the 2 hour shoot into 5 days worth of posts.
Pretty much every person that commented here gave their two cents about the state of downtown, and what they feel is missing. No amount of marketing makes up for a shortfall of services and businesses.
However there are the gems, like the places mentionned above by John, (don’t forget the Tunnel BarBQ). The problem I find is that downtown is mostly a drive in drive out type place. You might head down to go to a book store or to the TBQ, but then you leave and go home, why? Beacue there is nothing to keep you down there, it’s not a destiantion, it’s not a place you spend an afternoon walking around and browsing shops. It should be but it’s not.
Look over the comments in this series, it seems there is a good cross section of the City and area residents on here. Take this as a lesson as to what’s wrong. How to fix it, I don’t know, but the people have spoken, and they’re staying away. There’s a limited demographic attracted to the core these days,and it needs to be broadened.
Thanks everyone for your comments this week.
Thank you Andrew for bringing this much needed topic to light, if it’s not discussed, and brought up, it is forgotten, and left on the back burner, which in my eyes is the bases of the entire problem. IF we get more of the community involved, and our voices get heard, we may have the ability to influence future decisions, and perhaps the powers that be might start making different decisions. Andrews right, downtown is sort of a drive through type of place, and unfortunately until things begin to change, even if it’s in baby steps, nothing will improve downtown, in fact, it will probably continue to fall further into despair. Now I have to get some sleep…I’m headed down to that nifty book store which was mentioned in the morning!! Sure hope its open!!
Andrew, I understand and hear your point and I hope you hear mine which is simply that the only way to draw anyone downtown is to promote what positive points we can honestly claim
When I promote downtown, I don’t make stuff up, I guess its just the spin. I say we have more amenities (which is not defined simply as residential support) I’m right. When I say we have more arts options, we do. When I say we have the city’s best park, I believe it. When I say I we have more walkable cafe’s and other such things than the rest of the city, I really think we do. When I say we have more independant local restaurants within walking distance, I say it because its true. When I say we have the most festivals, its just plain true. Your problem with me is my omissions of the challenges we face when I promote downtown. Why would anyone who is trying to bring people downtown, focus on that?
If you have a better way to recruit residents and businesses in the short term, I’d be happy to advocate for it. We simply have to play the cards we are dealt the best we can.
The businesses pay for a clean team, if you believe that is insufficient, I don’t know what to tell you. Storekeepers that exist do a pretty good job, its the vacant spots and some (not all) late night businesses that simply don’t have anyone present to take care.
I agree that Tecumseh or Lasalle have made their share of mistakes when it comes to planning, but they’ve also done a lot to keep people happy, like contracting out basic municipal services to the private sector where it’s feasible, having far fewer administrators’ handle more responsibilities and treating the taxpayers’ as partners when important decisions are made. Compared to Tecumseh or Lasalle, Windsor city hall functions like a old-style Communist bureaucracy where decisions are made in private and without public consultation and citizens’ are treated like ciphers.
Yeah but no matter how you cut it Tecumseh is a completely unwalkable community that doesn’t even have a plan to fix it
Lasalle is a hair above Tecumseh for walkability, but that will soon be thwarted with the new big box development that will significantly impact malden roads mainstreet.
If lasalle wanted to make their community walkable they would come up with a plan to make malden more pedestrian and bicycle friendly
I think you’ll find that without massive gov’t assistance, Lasalle and Tecumseh won’t survive. Both seem to have the political connections to get that help but will that survive.
P.S. The Celebrate Ontario Grant was just awarded approximately 1/3 to Tecumseh, 1/3 to Amherstburg and 1/3 to Windsor. I guess its geographically and regionally politically correct but its also a tribute to the political power that the county has over the city.
Then the city shouldn’t be trying to sue the county and instead they should be trying to work TOGETHER. Gee, what a foreign concept here.
Citizens do need to get incolved but it is very difficult to get low-income earners to get invovled as they are either trying to hold down many jobs, trying to get a better education and/or are single parents with little time. That is a documented fact and not a stereotype of low-income earners.
What we need is for the city and council to hear us and especially for the building owners tounderstand what we need and want if they ever want to rent out their places again. It would make their lives as landlords much easier if they didn’t have to rent out a building to a different business every year or two.
Drove by the Mothers/Jokers building today… In the process of being demolished…
Wish I had my camera on me…
I noticed the demo going on this morning and booked home for the camera and got some shots late this morning, and I believe Andrew has been by as well.
I don’t know who was out with the camera in downtown today, but the trio of killdozers knocked down part of 819 Ouellette today and the rest of Club 801 will probably be a pile of rubble by the weekend.
I doubt it David, you think those guys are going to work on a long weekend? 🙂
I was there at 4:00 and they were already wrapping it up.
Look for the photos Monday.
I guess you’re right. I didn’t see them out today doing anything. They must be union.
Very interesting posts Downtown Windsor – Part 1-5, It would definitely be interesting to hear updates on any downtown Windsor progress
This was hilarious. I worked downtown for 4 years (2007-2011) while attending the U, and this 5 part series sums up everything about the death of downtown Windsor. It was especially hard standing outside listening to vistors from out of town laughing about having two shwarma places beside each other, about all the kiddie bars and rub-and-tugs, and all the vacant buildings.
The only “improvement” I saw was placing foliage on the curbs to give a more vibrant look, but on saturday nights these flower boxes were converted into astrays and outdoor urinals, and then of course the plants died and were not removed, adumbrating the heart of the city.
One positive comment is that the city workers do an outstanding job on cleaning up the vomit, blood, and piss that covers the sidewalks every sunday morning. I don’t go downtown anymore, because you would have to pay me to be a part of that zoo again.
If the dwbia focused on weeding out the unnecessary bars geared towards undesirables that vandalize the properties and harass the tourists, and implement a business/restaurant/shopping approach, we could once again see the great downtown windsor that it used to be. Stop throwing useless money wasters like redbull and balloonapalooza, and start thinking about longterm investments. We need people, not canals.
In a free society who decides what busines is, not undesirale?
If you want a great downtown like it used to be when was that?
I have lived in Windsor for over fifty years,in that time period Windsor never had a great downtown,their where many reasons such as no main anchor store, no national retailers except for Reitmans Woolworths, Kressege had retail stores. Simpsons (later Sears) Eatons only had catolouge outlets. Many local merchants tried but slowly moved or closed
you might think in the past downtown had great years but I must have missed them, or it was before my time.
Richard, I didn’t say that the businesses were undesirable, the people that go downtown and vandalize properties and fight with each other on the street are creating the horrible experiences in the heart of our city. Ask anyone over the age of 40 and they will tell you how they miss the old downtown. I hear stories about Kresseges, Adelmans, Bartletts, Smiths, Birks, the Nut House, even the underground restrooms, and many more businesses that have vanished. Now all we have is bars, bars, parking lots, stripclubs, bars, kiddie bars, a couple restaurants, and more bars. It’s disgusting just walking down main part of ouellette and having to avoid dry urine and vomit.
I understand that shopping has declined thanks to malls and the casino, but that doesn’t mean the solution is to implement more bars. You can’t even go to McDonalds on a saturday night without worrying about being stabbed by some drunken fool.Downtown use to be great COMPARED to the circus we have now, and no one is doing anything about it. For 4 years I witnessed weekend after weekend of the same bullcrap. It was embarrassing to speak with people from out-of-town trying to explain why we need to have 5 bars on one block, and 2 shwarma places beside each other.
You probably haven’t been downtown in awhile so you can’t realize that the mediocre downtown you experienced is now entirely out of reach with our current situation. Unless you are an underage drinker, a drug addict, or have a criminal record, then there is no need for you to spend money on weekend nights in our greatest retail location in the city.
On top of that, now they are moving the university kids (or what’s left of them) downtown, so they can have their cars broken into and tires slashed. They’re going to shut down some of the main roads during the summer so people can tour the vacant stores and closed bars during the day. Fireworks are on its last dying breath, and we can all look forward to ballonapalozza as the circus animals will destroy them at the end of the night.
I can’t believe you can say Windsor never had a great downtown, because anything would be better than what we have now, even a mulit-million dollar pool that will bankrupt the city with maintenance costs.
watch this video from youtube showing a morph of Ouellette Avenue from 1957 to 2007. Notice the big white elephant in the background that destroyed our greatest treasure. Also notice in the first picture there are businesses, cars parked along the street, people shopping. The last picture shows 5 bars in one intersection. The Boom Boom Room, Symbol, The Room, Honest Lawyer, and The Whiskey. Is it all necessary? Oh, and don’t forget limited parking spots and NOBODY shopping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Arr4GHsF4
GTdeath I was downtown on Friday and again on Monday,I also have a history of working in the downtown, 1955-1971, 1988-2002.I have seen the better days and today, the sucsses of a retail buishnes is townwnn provide products and service to attract customers.Windsors downtown retailer found they could not compete or moved other locations, partly because Windsor had very restictive shopping bylays, do you shop on Wednesday afternoon, shop after six pm buy gas on Sunday? In Windsor in the fifties and early sixtie you could not in Windsor.Thats why Doorwin Plaza, Yorkton Square, Gateway Plaza came about, then the malls.
When the Casino was being proppsed it was going to be a step to revitalize the downtown.