The tour continues today…
Along Maiden Lane you can find the shop of downtown advocate Betty Wilkinson, her shop “Works on Paper” is a great local gem of a used book store, and the kind of buisness we need downtown for revival. She has stated in the Windsor Star that this spring will make or break her. Try and get down and check it out if you’ve never been there.
Fug. More crappy stucco.
The site of much needless spilled blood and sorrow.
This is what our downtown has become, and percieved or not, this type of violence keep people and businesses away from the core.
While I dig the coolness of the sign, the shop features the sign with the dude for a business that’s gone, and a sign for American Apparel which is also gone. It’s now a gallery of some sort.
The House of Lee, a long time downtown restaurant. The building sports an impressive bar dristrict protection facade. No worries about broken windows here…
Windsor Korea Market. One of the things I truly love about our city is the amount of ethnic places to shop. It was closed on Sunday, but I went back earlier in the week to check it out.
In the same building no less! Up or down, plenty of places to get your tension…. uh… rubbed out.
Hey, imagine that? A vacancy.
It’s disgusting that Maiden lane is as snow covered as it is too…
Wowsers! Our only stucco clad high rise. Nothing like jamming our ugly recladding jobs front and centre.
Former Biblioasis, vacant. 1,100 sq., $10.00 a ft. Isn’t $1100 /mo a little pricey? I guess that it still vacant since the end of summer is the answer to my question…
Former Book Mark, vacant.
Like a bumble bee clad in stucco. The former Radio Tavern. Now a crappy ass kiddie bar.
Look at how wide the sidewalks are here. If the curb was brought back to the edge of the shoveled area, we could have more on street parking. However it seems that our extra wide sidewalks are there to pander to the patios. Look at old postcards, our streets were far busier, we had parking on both sides of the street as well as two pairs of street car tracks down the middle. I say we pull back the sidewalks and reintroduce on-street parking.
i wish i took photos like this when i used to live downtown in the mid 80s, or hang out downtown with my family in the 70s.
i feel like pretty soon, the few places i like to go to downtown will be gone, then i’ll never return again. i still enjoy the coffee exchange, basil court, ray and kims convenience, milk… but place i love keep disappearing. i loved it a lot more when i lived down there around 1985. record stores all over. a radio shack i could get parts at. birks where i could buy fancy gifts. epps where i could get docs. arcades i would play at after school. biway where i would buy blank tapes to record cjam, wdtx, and wdet. so many shops… all gone now.
I was very saddened when the Book Mark closed it’s door, that place was like a legacy downtown, it had been there so many years. Everyone went there!! I remember as a child, being taken there, and being allowed to by my books on Star Trek…LOL…it was part of my allowance…what can I say…I was a kid!! It’s been so long since I’ve actually walked downtown, I hadn’t even noticed there was another book store open, so that is definitely on my list of to do one sunny afternoon. Andrew thanks for pointing that out!! The 500 building was probably magnificent in its hay day, wish we had some pictures of it back then. What was the original building for? Honestly, I think having a street car re introduced from say Wyandotte to the river would be an excellent idea, what a neat way from people to get to and from, I mean I know it’s not like it’s un walkable, but I really think it would bring something neat, and unique to our downtown.
Darren your right, I remember going down town a lot as a kid also…the Bi-way was where I did all my Christmas shopping…and wasn’t there a Shoppers Drug mart too next to Big Boy…or where Big Boy used to be? Dr. Disc was another favorite I’d go to, to get the latest jams…it sad when you think about it, as it was only 10-15 years ago, the core has continually been ignored, and now we are at a point where it’s almost a total right off. As people have mentioned, it’s almost to the point where we have to wipe the slate clean, and start again. I sure hope we do it right this time.
Andrew, The $10 per foot rent rate probably includes common fees which could be between $5 and $7 of that number. Common fees being prop taxes, insurance and other fixed costs.
Like I mentioned before, the common fees are higher than the rents. The freezing of property taxes is a large contributor to the vacancies.
Betty Wilkonson sent a letter saying that she would be leaving at the end of the season if the 3am closing bylaw was not instituted. She is frustrated by that and by the delay and overbudget situation streetscape is in.
Betty said she will not go quietly (I love her spirit) and plans to hold one more maiden lane fair date TBA. Not only can you support her by patronage at her store but you can call your councillor and demand that they support the 3am closing to try to convince her to stay.
An interesting article in the Toronto Star today…
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/345315
This would certainly draw Americans back into our Casino…
I would like to see more on street parking on Ouellette and I think both the patios, which I find are a great asset to downtown, and on-steet parking can be accomodating.
Mark, I am puzzled? Why would a property tax freeze help with vacancies? Less taxes would make it easier to rent a vacancy shouldn’t it? But again it is the mill rate that is unacceptable. As I stated previously the rent rates in T.O. are about the same as Windsor! But could it be that insureance in Windsor is much higher due to the vandalism caused by the kids coming and shitting on our city (local one’s as well) for their weekend “fun”.
“Look at old postcards, our streets were far busier, we had parking on both sides of the street as well as two pairs of street car tracks down the middle. I say we pull back the sidewalks and reintroduce on-street parking. ”
—- don’t forget the streetcar tracks! -thats part of the formula too! even our heritage!
The core is what people make it.
While I have said I ultimately have to go the mall or out of town to find things I need, I still frequent downtown – if only for a coffee or to people watch.
But how many Windsorites come downtown on a regular basis? It’s far easier for most to go to Tecumseh or the suburbs.
Who are the downtown’s biggest clients? Youth. So naturally, businesses that cater to that demographic will spring up. (The Schwarma’s, the bars etc.).
Downtown’s evolve. Their purpose changes. It won’t happen overnight either. My hometown of Sarnia killed their downtown with a mall in the core. Now, 20 years later, it is only beginning to recover. Why? They are increasing population density in the core.
But if the downtown is so important to people, people need to make it their first destination.
While I don’t doubt people commenting here frequent downtown, the rest of Windsor needs to jump on board. Whether its for a coffee, a stroll along the river or dinner at one of the resaturants – to turn it around, we need to change our behaviours and support our own first (if we can).
Absolutely, policy decisions at City Hall are far from helping. But we can do much more than any policy at city hall.
Just my two cents.
I would disagree with the shaving off of the sidewalk — though empty because the downtown is in a major slump, Windsor’s main drag (redone in the late 80s?) was ahead of the curve and what cities are often trying to do. Toronto just did it on College between Bathurst and Spadina — after lots of urging and lobbying by area residents and activists. When people move back to the core in XX number of years, that space will be full and Windsor will be glad they have it.
Cars parked on the sidewalk do create a buffer from the traffic, which is an upside of their presence.
Why did Windsor ban patios? Was it too many kiddie bars? Patios are what cities do. Here, Europe, everywhere. Even the cold countries. Two weeks ago I was in Ireland and people were jammed on the patios when the temp hit 12C. Bring the patios back.
When considering Windsor’s downtown oif the 70s and the 80s, it might be useful to recall the mayors of that era, Frank Wansbrough (1970-74) and Bert Weeks (1975-85), both were Ouellette Avenue merchants.
RWS – by that token Wyandotte St. & Louis should be the cat’s ass.
Like a lot of people who voted for Fast Eddie in the last 2003 election, I blamed Windsor’s problems entirely on the Empire-building mentality of City Hall department heads and felt nobody could do a worse job than Mike “I love kiddie bars” Hurst. Eddie was bright, young and ran his own business before entering politics unlike that old City Hall hack Hurst, who couldn’t balance a budget if his life depended on it Little did I imagine that Fast Eddie would turn into another lapdog for the City Hall Empire builders and kiddie bar owners.
Andrew:
Good job with the photo tour- the old cliche about a picture is worth a thousand words- well these speak volumes!
As you know, several years ago I moved my business downtown from Walkerville- at that time there weren’t any historic buildings for ale in my price range that didn’t require thousands of dollars in upgrades- so I bought a building on Chatham Street west between Bruce and Janette- a fine property- beautiful heritage structure lovingly restored (an important criterion)- parking, easy access- perfect for my publishing empire (as it were!) In any other market people would kill for such a fine establishment located in a city’s core. We took a risk and invested in our city, we put our money where our mouth was, so to speak- despite objections from many quarters that this was doomed to be a disaster.
At that time, we citizens had elected a young ambitious mayor- he was going to bring new vision and attitude to the city- here was a guy who was going to “get ‘er done!”he strutted around with a copy of Richard Florida’s book “The Creative Class” under his arm- he spoke eloquently of a new vision to develop an Urban, filled with creative types, who would spur a new era in a cities’ prosperity- artists, web developers, designers, architects, musicians et al. It was the dawning of the New Frontier. We bought into this dream, but only later did we realize that this was going to turn into a nightmare.
My company certainly fit the bill as representatives of the New Order- we had established ourselves as a traditional and new media company and loved the idea that soon there would be housing and commercial properties rising from the ashes of the failed arena projects some twenty years in the making. Cafes filled with debate, galleries bursting with works, Europe on the Detroit River! Anything and everything possible, a cultural utopia in Canada South.
The Urban Village was a complete farce of course- this was the beginning of the new mayor’ and council’s inability to focus not only on this project and a host of other issues- and I don’t miss the irony here- by bringing CREATIVE solutions to city problems!
I proposed that the five block area that had survived the wrecking ball for the new arena, once known as Old Town, bounded by Pitt, Caron, Bruce and University be designated a tax free zone to encourage creative businesses to move in. Let’s develop the incentives toward a real creative zone, I said.
The answer was: “We can’t do that” Of course once you utter those words than let it be said, let it be done- and yet I asked them to consider what was going on in Sandwich, and I also in Guelph and Kingston, where city councils had designated incentives to attract the creative class- and also what about Richard Florida’s book, which I had read when it first came out, which had many examples of what cities could do to attract the creative class. Where was the leadership on this pillar of our star mayor’s campaign?
And of course, as we have learned time and again city councils can do whatever they feel like- just look at what they have done to the bridge company with their absurd zoning bylaws in Sandwich which benefit no one and demonstrate completely that it is not about business, it’s prsonal- (and the bridge being one of the largest tax payers in the city)-or the incentives offered to the university at the 11th hour to move their new engineering building to the Urban Village- but I digress.
Interestingly the only councillor who sat in on our discussions with city admin was Alan Halberstadt- and it wasn’t even his ward! Ron (there’s a big announcement coming!) Jones and Caroline Postma were no shows for our meetings with admin at city hall- that in and of itself speaks volumes.
Three years after purchasing the building we had reached a sad conclusion- there would never be an urban village- and the concept of the creative class was a joke. I had long ago lost faith in the mayor and this council’s ability to deal with downtown issues. I watched the downtown BIA spend money recklessly on ridiculous projects (how about getting rid of the gum of the sidewalks and shoveling the streets, as Andrews photos clearly demonstrate? And why is that everything in this town always has to be on a grand scale- can’t we ever do simple things first?)
Long story short- we ended up selling out after three years for a loss- we invested considerable upgrades into the property and the result was that our taxes had risen to $7200 a year- that is $600/month folks- just for taxes- for what? I am still at a loss as to why businesses pay so much commercial tax in this town. Is it because retailers have voted with their feet and moved to Tecumseh and the rest of us are left to carry the load?
The dream of an “Urban Village”- seldom heard these days by anyone- was over. We moved back to Walkerville- three years earlier there were few vacancies in Walkerville but today- take your pick- more support for the idea that small businesses are getting hammered in this town.
We now pay $500/month all in for our new digs in the Old Walkerville Post Office with a fantastic view of the Detroit skyline. That is $100 less than my taxes were on Chatham- you do the math- and as a business person I am not sure why anyone in their right mind would invest downtown. Ask Mike Plunkett.
It has now been more than twenty years since the city began talk of the downtown arena- lots of people got fat on land and expropriation deals at that time- the five blocks that remain had the potential to become something special- but that would have required vision and action- two things sadly lacking by city hall.
My conclusion is: don’t look for any solutions any time soon to the downtown mess. City admin has their heads up the arse fighting the bridge company and wasting our money on consultants and lawyers in the process- our new arena which ended up on our east border benefits Tecumseh more than Windsor and is also something we can ill afford at this time- expect more of the same over time. Question: who benefits from an arena on the east side? Why don’t we know more about the people behind the land deal and swap with the city?
Where we would be without the bloggers- certainly the so-called mainstream media has been conspicuously on this and other important topics!
Andrew- keep up the good work here- we need more people to spread the message that the emperor has no clothes!
The debate rages while Nero fiddles….
Worth the read in relation to downtown Windsor:
http://creativeclass.typepad.com/thecreativityexchange/2008/03/rustbelt-rebuil.html
Chirs – You’re bang on in your observation. There will never be an Urban Village, and I am firmly convinced this council would cut off their nose to spite their face.
The worst part is while Nero fiddles, we all burn.
Well, I guess you guys might as well give up. Downtown Windsor’s screwed, doomed and going to hell in a handbasket. Why do you live here anyways? It’s time to close up shop and move outta town. There’s nothing you can do except watch as it decays. Face it, you guys don’t matter because you have no influence whatsoever with the people that are in control of this town.
I got these comments this afternoon in an email from a regular reader. With his OK I am passing them along, he makes some very valid points:
Right! That’s exactly how I feel. Walkerville is my “downtown” for the very reasons your reader pointed out, Andrew. The rents, the shops, the amenities, all those things one expects of a real downtown is all there. Plus we have “old downtown” if one wants to bar hop, see the WSO, gamble, or take advantage of what it does best. But as for being able to stroll around, find things I need, in a safe and pleasant environment, Wyandotte St., Ottawa, and Tecumseh is where it’s at.
Great comments from Chris Edwards too, by the way. It was interesting and telling to read about your business’ moves. Welcome back to Walkerville anyway. 🙂
I am happy to join this party- right now I am sitting in Grenada, Nicaragua- it is always instructive to go to the Third World to appreciate how good we have it in Canada.
Having said that, let’s examine the concept of what a downtown really is, as John argues above. Isn’t it the main place where people come together for commerce and entertainment? Is that too simple an definition?
If so then perhaps our perception of downtown is no longer valid- personally I thought the marketing of downtown as the “heart of the city” made sense- at least in terms of perception. This whole “mosaic” thing is borderline retarded (OK- it is retarded). Who in God’s name approves these marketing campaigns- totally pathetic IMHO and destined to go the way of marketing done by the city in Detroit.
So maybe as John said Walkerville can be downtown- I know it is for me as I live in Walkerville (if only we had a small grocer!)- or even- if numbers rule- Devonshire Mall has become the new downtown.
Sidebar: add to the list of asinine moves made by council- the approval of Big Box development by Coco at the Windsor Racetrack- one more nail in downtown’s coffin.
Hey Chris, yeah we could use a full grocery on Ottawa or Wyandotte street but personally speaking the Market Square covers a lot of bases for us (and for less than it costs at a grocery), along with some delis, bakeries, butcher shops around the area that are under our noses but easy to forget about, along with the ethic mini groceries – also easily overlooked. As for being in Nicaragua at the moment, thanks for the sobering reminder that we don’t have it so bad as some others around the world.
Dumb question…….
…….when one looks at the viability of a shopping center, one looks at occupancy rate (among other things). What is the occupancy rate of Downtown Windsor?
re the comment about Walkerville being downtown, Wyandotte Street between Gladstone and Argyle was in fact downtown for the citizens of the town of Walkerville (swallowed by Windsor in 1935). The late Al Roach, a teacher at Walkerville C.I. and published author, wrote “If I had a Dollar to Spend on Wyandotte St. in the 1930s”.
Read it at http://www.walkervilletimes.com/roach-shop.htm
Thanks to Walkerville BIA administrator Joan Charette, Wyandotte and surrounding streets have been the scene of many successful and innovative events such as the recent Walkerville Holiday Week and the Art Walkabout (held in July) for the last several years. Great for the businesses along the streets and for the residents.
Some great new businesses have opened in Walkerville’s Bia recently including the Gourmet Emporium (a fantastic resto bar and gourmet food shop) in the beautiful heritage building (formerly the Bank of Montreal and T Dye For) on the corner of Chilver and Wyandotte, Jones and Co. (a wonderful vintage shop on Wyandotte between chilver and Windermere), Refine Fitness (a gym for professionals in the old Icon For the Home building, formerly Bernhardt’s Furniture) to name just a few.
douglasm. It depends on which occupancy you are talking about. If it is business I would have to say approx.35% but Mark Boscariol would know that answer.
Chris, I hope you are having a great time, I am sure the weather has been great! You assessments are correct. Why CAN’T Windsor have tax incentives? They have stated to me it is against the law but I have yet to find that law. Also, if it is against the law then why have other cities done teh same thing with wonderful results?
It is the CAN’T do attitude of city hall that pisses me off the most.
We can have an urban village we just need to vote the right people into power. We have to keep on the attack and not let up. We are either going to change the course or push until it is done. I am not going out without a fight are you?
Eddie Francis talks a big game about the creative class but he sure as hell didn’t put his money where his mouth is nor did our council. Take a look at the buget and what was stated. “the free ride is over” as if there ever was a free ride. And I am not even an artist and I know that!
We MUST keep these on issues on the fore front until the next election and then WE take control with WHO WE vote in! I will NOT give up my city for a bunch of self serving hypocrits.
SBW, we know people the issue is that city hall has alienated itself from everyone. It has NOTHING to do wit who you know anymore unless it has to do with the mayor or council and they are so inept that they can’t even do their own job right.
Oh I have to totally agree with Chris Edwards and the other reader who contributed a comment. Walkerville has gone miles to create a small town, down-town feel, equipped with all the amenities including attractive shops, a few pubs and restaurants and cleanly swept sidewalks! Via Italia, as mentioned earlier, has focused its efforts in a similar direction. I’d much rather go to a shop or restaurant on Erie St. or in the Wyandotte/Walkerville area. Is there really any hope for downtown when what we’re looking for can be found elsewhere?
Andrew….
……that $10 a square foot rate figures out to be about $915 a month, and like Mark points out probably contains some common fees, possibly including heat, light and water. That doesn’t seem to me to be outrageous, but I’d like to know how it compares to Devonshire, or better yet, Tecumseh Mall for cost.
This has been an interesting discussion. I spent a little time on a downtown development committee that failed in its attempt when the merchants, landlords and city couldn’t come to an agreement on what they were after……
Mark, I am puzzled? Why would a property tax freeze help with vacancies? Less taxes would make it easier to rent a vacancy shouldn’t it? But again it is the mill rate that is unacceptable.
I meant that the property tax freeze is whats killing us, before the freeze buildings were achieving lower assessments.
Even when the freeze is lifted. One of the biggest problems with getting lower assessments was that because few buildings sold for even low prices, there were no comparables. I remember being at someone elses hearing where they were bringing our comparables from sales before 9/11 which were obviously irrelevent.
This is sad that this is what become of downtown. I miss the days of shopping for hours downtown and eating at the BigBoy or Kresge’s. Can more pictures be posted of downtown in the 80’s?