We start today’s tour along University Avenue East at what I like to refer to as the trifecta of vacancy.
Closed & vacant former Bus Station
Closed & vacant former Top Hat Nightclub
Closed & vacant former Windsor Armouries. The only decent plan for this building I’ve heard since it closed is conversion to use as concert hall. Hopefully the W.S.O. can find avenues of funding for the project.
The vacancy cancer has spread to the adjoining building. This one located west of the Bus Station, has the right and middle units empty and for lease.
Hopping across Ouellette to University Avenue West, things are much better. The Bartlett building houses Milk and the very excellent Marathon Ethiopian Restaurant. Check either or both of them out and support your local businesses.
A look at the awesome new streetscaping. From what I can see the only main difference is the installation of bike posts, and the replacement of the brick planters and lamp posts with concrete ones. Mmmm… Cold, harsh, concrete.
The new main business of Ouellette Ave. Shawarmas. 🙂 This block of Ouellette has hands down some of the worst renovations and “modernizations”. It was like an architectural slaughter took place on this block.
Stucco-crap-ification.
Fugly. Good luck renting out the upper floors. After all everyone hates windows and natural light. Howver it’s nice to see a fully rented retail strip. A Men’s shop and some quality restaurants.
Turek’s Camera Shop, farewell to another longtime downtown retailer. I’m sure that one will stay vacant for a long time. Hopefully the renovation for the next tenant will involve the removal of the fugly corrugated metal siding.
Some moron thought that putting a brick veneer on the facade of the limestone clad building was a good idea. Nothing like making a half-hearted attempt at being architecturally sensitive to the existing structure.
Besides the fact that it’s about 7 feet wide, I can’t image that beautiful facade helps with occupancy.
More craptastic stucco. As you can see by the top, the building was once a nice brick building.
More crappy stucco. Also vacant. Hope the next tenant makes pizza otherwise get out your chisels. This type of cladding looks cheap and aesthetically ugly. How people can willingly apply this material to a structure is beyond me.
The granddaddy of the all, possibly the ugliest building on all of Ouellette: 1986’s Palace Building.
The tour continues tomorrow…
I still think that we should get rid of the roads, and turn downtown’s streets into brick-laden pedestrian pathways. I remember reading however that there was major opposition to temporarily closing Ouelette for such a use! Who needs roads when you could have a walkable outdoor urban centre. Just stick some unsightly parking garages on the four-corners of downtown, and WALK to the core.
I suppose though, a walkable downtown is barely a start, and not even the tip of the iceburg of the core’s problems.
Andrew – thanks for the continuation of the downtown tour, I had no idea that so many shops were vacant, and I’m sure there will be more additions on part three tomorrow. One thing I did notice however is there are quite a few shots you’ve taken where you can see a great deal of the background scenery, and surrounding area, especially that one where you point out the lack luster street scaping attempt. The first thing that caught my eye wasn’t the poor street scaping, but rather the lack of any life, not one single person is in that shot, and it goes on for blocks. How are we to revitalize this area, if we cannot even attract people downtown? I’ve never seen a downtown core like this!!! If you notice, a lot of your shots are like that……Downtown is truly hit rock bottom in my eyes. I also think the city should have implemented some restrictions, similar to those put on heritage properties, to prevent, and stop tenants from destroying the facades of those wonderful buildings, I mean if your going to spend the money on that crappy stucco, why not spend a bit more, or have some type of program in place which grants a portion of the renovation/maintenance cost from the city to those who DO keep the buildings original so to speak. So that way when new tenants move in, the entire renovation, and maintenance of the building isn’t at full cost to them. I mean aren’t some of these if not most of these buildings from the 1920’s, and 30’s? Aren’t they historic, and don’t they have some type of architectural value to them? Wasn’t there a bank on the Norwich Block that was painstakingly taken apart for this reason, and where is it now? Makes no sense to me what so ever! We’ve not only lost our family run business’s, we’ve lost the downtown heritage also with all these tacky, cheap, fugly, “modernized” store fronts.
One way they could test how well that works is by closing the street down for Summerfest, putting as many of midway booths up and down Ouellette, University, etc. as they practically can, instead of the riverfront. That would wick pedestrians away from the drive and into the downtown streets. As it stands now, Summerfest goers largely just make a beeline for the riverfront. Imagine the benefit to those businesses (that are still there) having all those people walking back and forth in front of their stores. Sure, Summerfest will be gone again after the fireworks but the effect that can be left on people who attended will last year round, if the opportunity is taken advantage of property.
John, great idea. We need to get the foot traffic back on Ouellette before anything will change.
Ross as you noted there is a lack of foot traffic. However let it be noted that we were downthere on a Sunday AM between 10:30 and 12:00. The only people we really saw were a few revelers who staggered out from their hotels to go find something to eat. The group we saw hit the Pizza Pizza. Chains rule!
The DWBIA to their credit have recognized that the buildings are a fugly mix and have insitiuted a facade rehabilition program. If anyone has taken advantage of it, I don’t know.
Check out details here: http://www.downtownwindsor.ca/freshfronts.asp
I was a little perplexed as to why the report was done by a Detroit company, the same Detroit comapny that the previous Executive Director was hired from…
Was there not a LOCAL company that could have done this? The DWBIA wants us to support local, yet they don’t practice what they preach… Maybe there is no one in WIndsor or Essex County that could have perfromed this work.
As far as facades go, building owners like myself had never had any type of guidance when it comes to design. We went to an architect, trusted the architect would recommend the best course of action and followed it. Thats why you have the results you have.
Downtown Windsor also is was one of the only downtowns that did not have design guidelines that were above and beyond the rest of the city. The city Center West CIP was the first time these type of design guidelines were instituted in the city.
After learning about design possibilities and motioning for a facade grant program to recruite businesses and beautify Downtown, the DWBIA paid $30,000 to have its own design guidelines prepared for all o Downtown in order to educate its members. Those new design guidelines are available at our office and communicated to all of our members. The facade grant program allows for matching funds of up to 10,000 (15,000 for corner bldgs) for anyone who improves their facade.
We also advocate that the city adopt many of our design guidelines as restrictions as to what shouldn’t be allowed, the DWBIA has given the carrrot but the stick remains absent.
Andrew and John speak of my treating people with disrespect, arrogance or having idiotic responses, but I only see that type of behavior in the comments under Andrew’s pictures.
BTW, Ouellette cannot be closed for a pedestrian mall as it will become the only north south connection to the riverfront within 5 blocks. The DWBIA has budgeted however to close it for 6 Fridays evenings and Saturday day and evenings (a 12,000 expense) provided the businesses program it with family friendly entertainment.
Also John, the comment about the city not being able to move trees and remove those stark white ugly planters, call Don Sadler or Jim Yanchula. I agree with you about moving them and fought harder than anyone, but they didn’t agree with you. Call them BS’ers not me.
“I never give them hell, I just give them the truth and they think its hell” – Harry Truman
A picture tells a thousand stories! The decay, the dirt, the facades, the aura of the downtown just is plain drab and ugly. Thanks for pointing out all the empty spaces. You don’t se that in the burbs, where life is gentieel and gracious.
If our City Council hasn’t clued in yet, then they are blinded by their own agendas.
It is postiively wretched considering the last ten year run here has seen many make a lot of money. The DWBIA needs to put the realtiy glasses on and do something.
The concrete planters are hideous and take up more of the sidewalk than before. Now the pan handlers can stretch out while they beg for money and take up the entire walkway. Not good for the vision of a walkable city.
Is there anyone who can effect change instead of a whole lot of talking? It’s time to reclaim our downtown- it will never be what it was, but it can be better.
Hey, I just remembered – you guys didn’t show Terra cotta pizza. They’ve been downtown forever and that’s why it smells like campfire around Ouellette and University every now and then.
SBW – You’re right. They weren’t fired up on Sunday AM, however we all know there are great restuarants down there, that has never been up for debate. Sadly restuarants and bars are all we have…
DWBIA has reality glasses on, it knows the reality of not being able to improve downtown while we tear it up at the same time.
It knows the reality that you can promote something for what it has whiile working to fix what it’s missing. I think the only absurdity on these pages is the thought that promotion of the downtown somehow makes one ignorant of the conditions. The two are mutually exclusive
F.Scott Fitzgerald once said that the sign of a true intellect is being able to hold two opposing thoughts in your mind at the same time and still be able to retain the ability to function.
Downtown can be a great place currently and still need vast amount of improvement.
If you think the burbs are gentieel and gracious thats great, I think Andrew should do a photo blog showing the true realities of that area
The DWBIA had the facade guidelines quoted by several local firms who wanted $20,000 mor e than the $30,000 that was spent. I believe the DWBIA would have paid a premium to shop local but could not justify that much of a premium
Andrew – I had no idea the “fresh fronts” program/opportunity existed, I think it’s wonderful. It’s exactly what I was headed for with my above comment. What I don’t understand is why people aren’t taking advantage of the opportunity. It makes no sense.
There were some wonderful renderings of what some of the buildings could look like, and funny enough, that ugly “bling bling:” sign/storefront was actually commended in the pamphlet, which seemed more like a BOOK, but either way, it was great to look at. I still feel that, in order for EVERYONE to be on the same page, those rules should be MANDATED, and not advertised as an option. I also would be interested to see what the people traffic would be like on a day during the week, when a downtown should be hustling and bustling, however most of the traffic that I ever see downtown during the day, are people waiting for buses, not window shoppers, which is unfortunate. Keeping with the conversation, I also agree those white ugly planters are HORRENDOUS, to me, they only serve as giant ashtrays, and garbage cans. Thanks Mark, and Andrew for the information.
As far as facades go, building owners like myself had never had any type of guidance when it comes to design. We went to an architect, trusted the architect would recommend the best course of action and followed it. Thats why you have the results you have.
But you couldn’t tell that it’s ugly?
After learning about design possibilities and motioning for a facade grant program to recruite businesses and beautify Downtown, the DWBIA paid $30,000 to have its own design guidelines prepared for all o Downtown in order to educate its members. Those new design guidelines are available at our office and communicated to all of our members. The facade grant program allows for matching funds of up to 10,000 (15,000 for corner bldgs) for anyone who improves their facade.
Why do you constantly feel the need to brag about how much your studies cost? Why can’t you just leave it at the fact the DWBIA paid to comission their own study? Every time you attach a dollar figure to something, it seems very braggarty.
However you didn’t answer my question as to why the study was contracted to an American company, and the same company that the former Executive Director was hired from?
We also advocate that the city adopt many of our design guidelines as restrictions as to what shouldn’t be allowed, the DWBIA has given the carrrot but the stick remains absent.
I looked over the study, and it seems that it was well put together and it should be in play. Banning the use of EIFS would be a great start.
BTW, Ouellette cannot be closed for a pedestrian mall as it will become the only north south connection to the riverfront within 5 blocks. The DWBIA has budgeted however to close it for 6 Fridays evenings and Saturday day and evenings (a 12,000 expense) provided the businesses program it with family friendly entertainment.
What about Goyeau? I also think we need to reevaluate the use of one way streets downtown. As John remarked when we were down there on Sunday, Pelissier is like a speedway.
Mark apologies to my reply above, I see you answered my question while I was typing mine.
Has anyone used the facade funding yet?
If you think the burbs are gentieel and gracious thats great, I think Andrew should do a photo blog showing the true realities of that area
Why don’t you do it for me Mark, I think you live closer to the burbs than I do.
Honestly, I can’t tell you the last time I was out there. My Mother In Law used to live near the Zehr’s in St. Clair Beach… I never go out there, I have no need. What I need I can get inside city limits.
Last time I spent money out there was to see a movie at the sprawled out movie place. It think it was during the LIFF a few years back.
“Why do you constantly feel the need to brag about how much your studies cost? Why can’t you just leave it at the fact the DWBIA paid to comission their own study? Every time you attach a dollar figure to something, it seems very braggarty. ”
The numbers are there to show that the budget matches the stated priorities, When I joined the dwbia board, Clean and safe were a stated priority while only 4% of the budget were devoted to those issues. Now over 25% is. At that time over 20% of its budget was spent on marketing to Americans only, today that number is zero, we market to our own city first.
I’m sorry you feel the money’s bragging. Thats not how it was intended. You consistently say that the DWBIA has failed and/or accomplished nothing. I’m trying to show how much it has spent advocating for the very things you promote.
If you would prefer I can state the numbers as a percentage of our budget. I think its important to show that we walk the walk instead of talking the talk. When we spend tens of thousands on LED lights or Hanging flower planters, why shouldn’t we brag. The money comes from a surtax of all our businesses and a huge contribution from the Casino. Its not like its my money that I’m bragging about, I guess you could call It bragging for the entire downtown and showing a bit of pride which you correctly point out is very absent in our downtown
One constant criticism I put at city council is that their actions don’t meet their words.
I am only trying to show that the DWBIA is an organization puts its money where its mouth is.
I think Pelissier could be considered but Goyeau is a tunnel access route and is up in the air due to the tunnel plaza expansion plans. I’m not saying it shouldn’t be considered, just that the city needs to have a long term implementation plan for the tunnel expansion
As a minimum pelissier should be converted from one way to two way but until the residents speak up, it won’t happen
Andrew, there is nothing I would like more than to put to rest the feud that has started between you, john and I. We all want the same things. If you want an apology, its yours, if you want me to eat crow, I’ll eat crow. The only thing I won’t do is state things I do not believe to be true or allow those statements to stand.
Has Shanfieds or the Canada Gift Shop ever applied for the facade loan? The Canada Gift shop has had the same sign up there since the 1970s and now letters are missing from it. What’s holding them back? Is it just too much red tape to qualify for it? Do vendors feel they won’t get it? Do vendors have to foot the bill first and then apply and wait for reimbursement 5 years down the road? How long has it been in place for? Is it that these vendors feel their property taxes are too high and are concerned that their property taxes will double if they cleaned up their property? If they strip the garbage and bring it back to it’s historical appearance and clean the brick, do they still qualify for the loans or is it just for silly stucco and modern innovations? Shanfields sells $5,000 Rolexes and diamond rings. If customers are spending that kind of money, doesn’t it make sense that customers would want to visit a building with a nice clean exteroir? One would think that if the carrot was so readily visible that they would see this great big carrot and reach for it.
Hold the phone! Where did this spiel about “genteel” burbs come from? I hate the burbs. So does Andrew. Not as much as Mark apparently though. And I won’t be doing any photo essays on the countless cookie cutter mcmansions and giant centralized car-oriented plazas either.
OTOH there are many neighbourhoods and districts within city limits that are still well-serviced by mostly walkable essential amenities such as Walkerville, South Walkerville, Olde Riverside, Old South Windsor, even Sandwich town (disenfranchised as it is), etc. that are great places to live life without driving everywhere you go. Matter of fact, as I type this comment I have the receipt for my last fill-up… Feb. 26. I’m almost down to a 1/8 tank now. Not a “car free” life but 75% of what I need can be found in my nieghbourhood from the diverse mix that services my area. The other 25% is not more than a kilometre or two away. That is what is called a district that is pedestrian and resident friendly. If I lived downtown I’d have to survive on Cuban cigars and hand jobs. Yay!
While downtown was the seed of Windsor’s birth and was once a thriving city centre, its residents and businesses were chased out slowly for reasons pointed out already that weren’t the fault of those participating in the mass exodus. Now downtown wants them back. How nice. Well, do any of those books say anything about the value of a business district demonstrating civic pride? Does it say anything about maintaining presentable storefronts. Does it say anything about pushing a snow shovel in front of your business for ten minutes, or throwing some rock salt on the ground so pedestrians can pass safely? Does it say anything about picking up the debris and garbage left behind? Don’t even start with the ineffective “clean team”. It should be up to every property owner to maintain their property frontage – even if it is not leased.
Go take a walk up Erie street and learn something. The sidewalks are swept, the storefronts are neat and tidy. The place just screams of civic pride. And it is rewarded in kind by being a thriving district even in these hard times, including lots of foot traffic on a late Sunday morning. You don’t see anyone there from the BIA peddling excuses and double-talk. They just get ‘er done. Remember that phrase, “get ‘er done”? Mark, if you put half as much energy on putting your foot up a few asses downtown as you do trying to refute perfectly valid points made in these discussions…. this series wouldn’t even exist.
John, the comment came form somewhere else in the discussion. maybe yesterday, or on scaledown? I’m pretty sure the original post was relating to how the disinvestment in the core isn’t found in the burbs despite the state of the economy.
As John points out, look at Erie St. there is no district in the city that can match the pride of the business owners.
David, that block is probably a bad example right now as redevlopment rumors surround that block. I doubt any investment would take place while demolition is pending. The Canada gift shop is a great building, relatively unchaged as well. It wouldn’t take much to make it a gem of Ouellette.
Mark – fair enough about why you’re quoting prices.
I’m not looking for an apology or for you to eat crow, I just want you to realize that the status quo isn’t working that slick videos aren’t the answer. Look at the comments here and at scaledown. Residents are speaking, but it seems they’re not being heard. But the simple amenites are lacking, silly little things like a Coles or even an International News would go a long way towards helping the core. We need a mix of small national retailers and vibrant local businesses. But we keep loosing places like Tureks only to have them replaced with nothing.
What we as a city (residents, council, The City and the DWBIA) have been doing isn’t working. In this case I think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over. Even if the DWBIA has stopped trying to lure Americans the monster that has been created still exists.
Too many years have been spent turing the downtown into a toilet/playground and now it’s like a runaway train. The real businesses have all but left and all we’re left with is a wateland during the day and a party zone at night. There needs to be some subsidizing and/or reduction of taxes to get the businesses back. I’m not asking for a Dominion at Wyandotte and Ouellette again, but something that’s not a money mart would be good…
Maybe zoning restrictions need to be done? I’m not sure what the answer is, but it’s clear it’s what you or I or the City or the DWBIA have been doing, is not working. The sooner we can admit that the sooner we can all work together to achieve the same goal.
Are they demolishing the whole the block or just the vacant buildings up to the gift shop? From the Windsor Star, it’s just the vacant buildings up to the gift shop and the rest of the buildings will remain. Petrotta (sp?) Construction already bought the vacant buildings as stated in the Star. It’s my understanding from the ad that they weren’t going to buy anymore property. I guess the vibrations from demolition next door for a month might cause the glass and porcelain to shake and possibly fall over. But, that’d be only for like a month. Then, they could put it back up again. Not a good enough reason as to why not clean up the front facade when the DWBIA is offering all these so-called incentives.
Obviously it’s apparent that people want downtown to be revitalized. That much we can all agree upon. People are sick and tired of complaining, and observing nothing being done. So the question is, when will someone at the top of the totem poll LISTEN to what the people actually want, and not just assume what they want, or what they feel is best for us. Since when do we need others to speak for us? When will our wonderful elected officials (**GAGS**) actually initiate something, and show Windsor as a City that they too are serious in wanting to change our downtown, and are hearing what people want? Do you think a stupid video is the answer? One, which doesn’t even, truly focus on revitalization? You and I cannot do this alone; it must start at the top. The answers are simple, and clear as day. Illuminate the downtown tweeny clubs, COMPLETELY. Implement new zoning laws forbidding them to even be established downtown, I mean if they all want to be together, and operate as neighbors, then move them across town, hell out of town would be better, the vast majority of people in this city from what I have observed, won’t miss them in our core to begin with. Mandate property owners to clean, and maintain their property frontages as John mentioned, don’t make it an option, make it LAW. If they disobey make them pay.
Enforce new by-laws which emphasize preservation of historic buildings downtown, and forbid the addition of stucco, and other materials not suited for these buildings. The taxes on those properties, and just in general for this city are disgusting, lower them, and make owning a downtown business, a feasible/profitable business venture vendors can take on. Where does the re birth begin? Who initiates the first step by illuminating the bars, and implementing new by laws?? King Eddie? If so, downtown will fall much further in its demise with Eddie at the wheel. I love that these blogs give us a voice, and freedom of speech, however it’s unfortunate that our cries are falling on deaf ears, at least in my opinion.
I don’t know If anyone knows that some of the buildings I’ve seem stuccoed over have had their brick surfaces crack and break off due to the freeze thaw cycle. They really look shitty with broken brick faces. Is there a cost effective way of fixing this problem without covering it with stucco ???
Which buildings?? I don’t know what you’ve seen, but I normally see broken bricks running along the roof line because of a damaged or missing evestrough/downspout assembly for an extended period of time and the footings have sunk causing the rain to drain on that end, in which case, you install a wide fascia board and evestrough covering the damages brick. Putting stucco over brick to cover a roof drainage problem doesn’t solve the problem. The stucco will just crack and peel away. I think the Basil Court building and Turek had a roof drainage problem and that’s why they sealed it up instead of running a evestrough along the roofline. Then again, maybe someone did a real piss ass repointing job.
I’m not sure Mike. But with the Park Building as an example: http://internationalmetropolis.com/?p=448 There was nothing wrong with it.
I think 90% of the time, it’s a cheap, quick renovation.
I guess that means Mark will be taking advantage of the facade improvement program?
Anybody read Gord Henderson’s column in The Windsor Star Today? I think he hit the nail on the head when he lambasted the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde mentality of our civic and community leaders, whose unpredictable behaviour is driving away investment. For every positive step our elected idiots on city council have made toward downtown revitalization, like luring St. Clair College downtown, they take two steps backward by agreeing to build a new arena next to the old GM Trim Plant or giving a green light to a new hotel and commercial development on Windsor’s far east side.
Mark is correct that the majority of blame needs to be laid at the feet of council and the mayor. They have done very little to help alleviate the problems of downtown let alone actually doing positive things.
The biggest issue I have is where is Coun. Postma? Where is Coun. Jones? The downtown is in their ward yet they have done little to fix the problems. In all honestly I hope they don’t try the “fix” the problem downtown like they are trying to fix the problem in Sandwich. With a mentality and solution such as the ICBL who needs enemies? The same goes for Coun. Valentinis. Where is he at? The only guy I hear talk about downtown on a regular basis is Coun. Halberstadt.
Why is the CIP froze until 2011-2012? We are in dire need here and we are being ignored in a time like this. How sad that our elected officials ignore those who want to make changes for the better.
Why not just make ithe downtown, from Wyandotte to the river and on both sides, one long bar / restauarant.
Wow! A lot of energy in this debate! Before the next municpal election you gentlemen should start organizing a list of constructive things that you would like to see implemented to start the renewal downtown. Pass the list to the politicians and hold them accountable.in 2010. Lots of time to get oranized? There are a lot of dormant good ideas deep in this blog.
Just to clarify, from what I remember the mayor said was just using a previous cost estimate and did not specifically cost it out himself
I also was under the impression the stretch that would be flooded would not be lengthy or deep and would only serve as a water feature for a strip of commercial buildings with residences above them that could access them for pleasure craft.
I’m sure whatever could be flooded could be filled in if the railbed was needed. I’m assuming, light rail for WIndsor would not be in the cards for decades.
In the meantime, I believe the waterway would be one more way to connect the river to downtown, a potential showpiece for the city.
One of my main beliefs as to why our citizens do not demand better development is that there is no example in Windsor staring them in the face to show them how the quality of life is improved on a daily basis.
I believe if we could just get one proper mixed use residential development completed, the public would demand that as a minimum standard throughout the city.
Thats why I think this urban village has a significance far greater than just City Center West or even Downtown. I believe that justifies the 12 million expenditure if it could help make it a success
is all of the original brick and limestone trimming and all the things that made these buildings beatiful removed or destroyed by the stucko? or would be when removed? i don’t see the problem with making and restoring buildings to 1920-50’s styles. is a brick building that much more expensive? is having tastful trimming and little things you may not even notic in the structure REALLY that expensive now a days? places like downtown and ottawa street would receive a hell of a lot more attention from peopleif it reverted to it’s roots, if it felt like home, because that’s what these buildings do…or COULD do….used to do would be more accurate i suppose.
I started tobacco while I was 14 years old. It appears to be the most terrible mistake of my life. Right now I’m much older and I’ve got COPD. Whilst looking to quit smoking, I came upon the e cigarettes and will try it out. With any luck, it is going to help me with this disgusting addiction.