Yesterday afternoon, the was an open house at the new Tecumseh East, East Side arena. Located downtownbehind a factory towards the eastern city limits, as far as possible from downtown, another temple to the car is going up. Drive in, drive out. It’s the Windsor Way.
As you walk down the service drive from the Lear plant parking lot, the beast rises.
The not-arena part is coming along swimmingly. The arena? Judge for yourself…
The plans for your tax dollars.
For the photo op’s, they even installed a “fake” centre ice.
Under the seating area. The last time you’ll see photos from under here…
Looking from the “large gym” area towards one of the extra community ice pads.
Inside the rink.
A view down the hallway linking the arena to the community centre portion.
This was referred to as the “Concession area”.
Steve Bell of AM800 was the MC for the “press conference” portion of the afternoon.
Blah, blah, blah…
We were graced with Royalty. His Royal Highness King Eddie, Dictator of the Banana Republic of Windsor, sporting a nice smirk too I might add. November 2010 can’t come soon enough….
Some guy from the Credit Union on the left, and former NHL player and current Spits co-owner and GM, Warren Rychel. I do have to say those new Spitfires Throwback Jersey’s are pretty sharp.
Well that it folks, off for more tours.
What’s the address??
It really ticks me off to hear this place being called the WFCU Centre. WFCU is partially to blame for the mess this city is in. Only 20% of the people in this city will qualify for a mortgage from them. They’ll only offer loans to the blue chip, high paying union workers of this city with a really high paycheque. If you’re a financially solid self-employed business person with a really good credit rating and a PROVEN track record like me, they won’t lend you a dime or help anyone with a refinance to grow in this city. If you ever wondered why you see so many vacancies and empty buildings are around this city, it’s partly to do with stuck up, selfish organizations like this. They’re not even a bank, they’re a “credit union”, so don’t even try to think you can be stuck up like TDCT. If you want to make a difference and help this community recover, start offering refinance and construction loans to private citizens who are motivated to see this city recover. People who have high paying union jobs are not the ones who are going to take the chance to restore old buildings and build new buildings and get the capital to make an idea real and fill up all those vacant buildings and reinvigorate the local economy. WFCU doesn’t give a crap about helping the Windsor community, just lining their pockets by only offering low risk loans and mortgages to high paying union jobs. Union jobs are vanishing and the future of our economy is going to be from the initiative of entrepreneurs and self-employed people. I hope people see WFCU for what they really are and that they’re partly responsible for seeing the destruction of this city. Having their name WFCU on a public facility like this like they are somehow helping Windsor is so phoney that I can’t even stand it!! Nothing wrong with offering mortgages to low-risk, high paying union jobs, but be fair and offer these mortgages to other people too. Otherwise, get out of this city and let another credit union or lender balance their loans so they can improve this community without you guys hoarding all the blue chips!
I don’t think it has an address really. It’s not on any road, or accessible to the public yet.
They are expanding McHugh St. from Lauzon across Little River, so I think once the road it expanded it will have a McHugh address.
I don’t know much about WFCU, but locating the new arena downtown would create its own problems, wouldn’t it? I mean, wasn’t lack of parking a big complaint about The Barn’s location?
What about a hockey tourney with dozens of teams, maybe 5000 or more spectators – where would they park? I don’t see a lot of hockey players taking the bus – no subway option. Hockey basically requires a car, especially if you carpool, which does save gas and traffic.
I’d rather not see this thing was Windsor’s JLA on the riverfront. That monstrosity has to go, ASAP. A Costco has more architectural charm.
Where exactly were any downtown locations for the arena, besides the area west of the art gallery? That’s a big footprint with parking too.
I think too that a lot of residents wouldn’t like that arena as a neighbor – so the Lear plant (for as long as that stays open) is a good neighbor. Likely it won’t be open for long, though, not with the dollar at par.
Agree 100% JB.
And oh, the irony:
Affordable clean water is beyond our grasp, but we have the resources for this.
“Hey Moe! Hey Larry!”
There is no lack of parking in Downtown Windsor!
A good look at the destruction p lots cause can be found here:
http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=2349
I think the Emperor needs some new clothes, quite a “snappy” dresser isn’t he. Is it my imagination, or is the King’s nose getting longer after all the lies he has been telling us? Just wonderin *smile*
The faded jeans / hitman suitcoat look is coming back don’tcha know….
How sad is it that we waited all these years to have what should be one of the city’s crown jewels located behind an aging factory on a dead-end street. What a joke! I suppose it’s just a coincidence that London’s downtown has been thriving since the opening of the John Labatt Centre in their downtown. Way to sell us out Eddie – don’t spend the money all in one place!
Extremely sad yes, but sartorially speaking, it’s nice to see a politician that doesn’t wear the frump-a-lump golf shirt or bad/boring suit get-up. He’s certainly not a fashionista, but it’s a nice change from the usual.
Well David if your actually were “financially solid self-employed business person with a really good credit rating and a PROVEN track record like me, they won’t lend you a dime”
Why would you need a loan from them?
Instead I believe it’s just another anti-union rant because of jealousy! Need to grow up.
Take a course on economics, Guido. 99% of companies are built using leverage. You think a guy like Henry Ford, who’s parents were farmers and dropped out of school in Grade 6 because he was so poor with his first job being shovelling coal into a furnace, could build the billion dollar Ford Motor Company from just his earnings in one of the lowest paid jobs?? No, he borrowed money and used leverage to make a difference. But, a union guy like you is so used to the union mentality that people with initiative have somehow ripped them off and, therefore, they’re owed a high standard of living from entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs should be stepped on that a lot of businesses have grown sick of this nonesense and left the city. Cut the hand that feeds you and you’ll see how crappy your standard of living gets. Help people fish with the proper tools instead of poking branches into the river and you’ll see how this city recovers.
Although this doesn’t seem to be a popular idea, I was actually impressed with what I saw at the open house. Windsor wasn’t just in need of a spectator arena. The number of ice pads in our community is below the provincial average and this helps address that problem along with adding a community centre for the east end.
I was definitely on the side of having the arena downtown but I’m not sure if it’s really necessary with the Casino expansion there as well, not to mention parking issues.
Also, I don’t think the Lear plant will be visible as the entrance to the arena will be on the opposite side.
One thing I don’t like is the new name. Couldn’t a better, more prominent Windsor busniess have purchased the naming rights? ie: Chrysler, Hiram Walker, Royal Pita Baking Company;)
Takes one to know one Mark. Figures you probably work for them in some capacity and have to take it upon yourself to defend the bread they put on your table. You haven’t proven they’ve helped the community–all you did was attack me. They’re absolutely not light years ahead of the banks. You just restated the obvious–WFCU paying to advertise to mislead the public into thinking they’re the good guys. Any con artist can do that.
Relieving the debtload of taxayers my ass. Advertising is not helping the community. Approving lots of commercial loans to promote economic activity in the area is.
I’d have rather seen a REAL bank advertise on it like Royal Bank or BMO than WFCU. We could have even had Coca Cola, Pepsi, Caesar’s, MGM, or any local realty company advertise. If they looked around, there’s plenty of takers. Coca Cola and Pepsi spend billions each year on institutional advertising and pay huge premiums to have exclusive sales rights on marketing their soft drinks in arenas like this and I’m sure they would paid even more than WFCU. So, WFCU didn’t do this community any favours. More favouritism from King Eddie in choosing WFCU. WFCU represents everything that’s wrong with this city.
Actually seeing that the WFCU won that bid is to me the silver lining in this cloud. Thanks for the background on that, Mark. If it was an “open bid” as you explained it, that means that this sponsor won it fair and square and selection by due process, not because of the wave of “King Eddie’s” wand.
Just because it was an open bid, it doesn’t mean a lot of businesses knew about it. It’s King Eddie’s job to make sure they’re aware of it with some kind of follow up. That’s why he’s paid his $150K a year job. I’m sure Coke, Pepsi, and a lot of other companies weren’t even aware of it. But, hey, it’s an open bid process. Let’s see a list of how many businesses participated and how much everyone who participated bidded. What was Coke and Pepsi’s offer??
I can’t speak for anyone else here, but the first time I was aware of the naming rights being up for grabs was the day they announced that WFCU had won them. Did I have my head in the sand, or was this another inside job?
Scott, I’m not sure but , I’m in the same boat as you.. However I’m sure it was advertised. Personally, I don’t care who’s name is on it. WFCU doesn’t offend me nearly as much as the location.
Mark, all valid points however since all the land was expropriated, many proposal have come and gone for a downtown arena, all of them squandered by inept municpal government (Jebb group anyone?). Like it or not arenas draw people to events, and it’s a slap in the face to every downtown business that the arena is moving where it is. Everybody is so quick to cry about parking, well the barn has made do since 1925…
It’s funny how it’s now come to light about how decrepit the projects are beside the barn, a little forethough could have seen new housing built elesewhere, and a new arena rise on the reclaimed land where the projects currently are. Those building have all reached the end of their service life (50+ years), other cities have realized that housing the poor like rats clustered in highrises is not a good idea, it doesn’t work. But we all know that King Eddie’s legacy of a new city hall will end up on those lands…
20 years of BAD urban planning has help to turn our downtown into the dump it is today. Before you try talking about the positives, realize that I live downtown, I have friends that live downtown, but rarely do I or anyone I know go down there because it holds nearly nothing for the average resident.
As long as the emphasis remains on getting American Kids pissed up, absentee slumlords, and lack of retail, downtown will continue to flounder. The streescaping project is probably one of the most useless waste of my tax dollars I’ve seen in years. While I know that you guys at the DWBIA are trying, thinkgs are bleak, and there are NO bright spots on the horizon. My wife and I go downtown and patronize local restaurants frequently, however we avoid downtown like the plague Thursday night through Sunday morning.
More emphasis needs to be put on attracting businesses that IMPROVE the downtown. What I wouldn’t give to have Coles back, or even Southshore Books. Clothing Stores? That would be nice too, and I’m not taling about the high end boutiques. Last year my wife and I spent a week in Saint-Etienne, France, once of Windsor’s twin cities, and it was bloody depressing. There is nothing in common with these two cities. Saint-Etienne is urban , walkable and full of name retail shops on every street, it is the polar opposite of what Windsor is. Like Windsor it was dependant on an industry that closed up or that left town (coal mining and arms manufacturing). All of the major employers of decades past are gone, yet it has managed to reinvent itself and create a new vibe.
Bars, Peace Beacons (where non customers can’t sit in the seats that their tax dollars paid for), Parking lots, murals and vacant buildings don’t make for a good downtown, despite what those wearing the rose coloured glasses say. Downtown Windsor died the day the wrecking balls hit the Norwich block.
That arena belonged downtown and it’s a crock of shit that it didn’t get built there. King Eddie likes to talk that he cares about downtown, but under his watch the arena is leaving, and the “urban village” lands remain vacant. Where there’s a will there’s a way. There was simply no will. The big box stlye (drive in, drive out) arena is just plain dumb, and bad for the city. No foot traffic going to dinner before the game, or out for a few drinks after. My cat could do a better job at urban planing.
I also never knew the naming rights were up for grabs until after it was announced. It may have been obscurely posted in the Windsor Star because I didn’t see it. It’s not negligence that a company should have seeked out the city about advertising. The city is supposed to market it properly to potential advertisers so we get bidders competing for it. I get phone calls all the time from Windsor Star, Pennysaver, Rent4all, Renter’s News and a whole bunch of publications if I want to advertise with them. I’ve had marketers call me who I’ve never even heard of until they called me. Even real estate leasing agents go out cold calling head offices when they want to find someone to fill a vacant commercial building. The city is negligent in not doing it’s job.
And, to point out, it’s 1.62 million over 10 years and then they get their name on it in perpetuity. That’s $160K a year for advertising. And, it comes to less when you factor in the Time Value of Money as it’s not a lump sum payment as some transnationals do. That sounds like pretty cheap institutional adveritising to be on a $65 million arena. How much does a 30 second commercial cost on a TV station during prime time? I think taxpayers been cheated by backdoor wrangling. I think transnationals would have offerred a lot more if they were made aware of it.
Even in the ad, King Francis wrote that WFCU “best fit” the RFP process. What the heck does “best fit” mean? What gives him the right to decide what’s a “best fit”? As a taxpayer, I want the company that offered to pay the most so my taxes don’t keep shooting up.
And, to add insult to injury, the Windsor Star stated that Marty Kosma, the President and CEO of WFCU, is now the made chair of the sponsorship/advertising search committee by King Francis. So, he now gets to filter who else gets to advertise on the WFCU arena? How do we know he’s going to market it properly and we’re going to get top dollar for these spots??
And, why is the list of bidders and how many participated in the process held in secret? Make it public. I want to see how they conducted this “due process”.
The leader has to take responsibility for his actions. He made a lot of bad decisions and should resign.
He screwed up with the Capitol being tied up in bankrupcy court. King Francis is a lawyer. He went to law school. He should know how bankrupcy law works. That’s malpractice and negligence to advise council to go court. I’d give him some leeway if he wasn’t a lawyer, but he is one and we expect him to know how the law works. Instead of bankruptcy procedings, why didn`t council bring in a private ADR arbitrator to try negotiating an outcome that would have seen it open today than watching the Capitol rot away empty. He`s a lawyer. He knows better.
What about the flip flop with the Windsor Utility Commission and the $6 million spent that went unaccounted for and all the houses that didn’t get billed, so I see my water bill skyrocket?? And, what gives him the right to cut off and berate Councilor Halberstadt for trying to get the Solitictor General to review WUC instead the Ministry of Municipal Affairs at council meetings. Francis is a lawyer. He doesn’t know Robert’s Rules of Order?? Why doesn`t he want a more thorough audit from the Solitictor General. Would they uncover that Francis was lazy and negligent.
What about Andrews explanation of the mess in downtown?? What’s King Francis` solution other than wasting taxpayer`s money on overpriced initiatives like the Bunker when we could have just kept a perfectly good Clearly Guest House with more appealing architecture than the overpriced piece of crap there now. All it is is a poured concrete basement with a roof on it. $3 million for that hunk of junk. That`s my taxpayer dollars being wasted!
How about putting the location of the Windsor Arena to referendum on the municipal election
ballot or whether the city can even afford it? It doesn’t cost anything extra. And, it doesn`t logically follow that Marty Kosma is the best choice to chair the advertising committee because he`s not impartial in this matter. He can filter things so that only his friends get the best spots, thus, costing taxpayers more money., This is the basis of backdoor politics.
He`s a terrible mayor. He should resign.
Not to mention that fact that all the bad decisions are responsible for the highest commercial property tax rates in all of Canada.
Oh, and let`s not forget King Francis sitting back while Boardwalk converts their 35 highrise apartment buildings in the city to condos so those apartment buldings get billed at a residential rate when they should be paying the apartment building rate which is two and a half times higher. Who`s gonna pay for the missing several million a year in lost property tax revenue. Me and you.
Of course, an outside law firm is gonna say come back with a crappy offer and sue. It’s in their financial interest to do so. That’s how divorce lawyers and a lot of other trial lawyers make most of their money, so why would they suggest anything that would lead to negotiated settlement would lead to less billable hours. They need to pay for their million dollar mansions in Russel Woods somehow. But, King Francis is supposed to be representing the interests of the city and he’s a lawyer. That whole affair should have been negiotated and mediated through Alternate Dispute Resolution, not this nonesense in Superior Court. Now, it’s gonna get tied up and remain empty for years while the courts process it. The mayor didn`t represent the taxpayer’s interests here.
Well, each to their own. I enjoyed the brickwork architecture of the Cleary Guest House. I thought it fit well for a parklwaterfront setting. It’s similar to other brick structures in parks around this city. There was nothing wrong with it. I prefer brown brick to cement and glass exterior walls any day of the week. But, the price tag to replace it with something else was ridiculous. It was a can of worms that never should have been opened. And, the chief at the Bunker doesn’t even know how to cook a low fat meal. He needs to go back to cooking school. Subway, McDonald’s and Burger King all have healthy choice menus. I go to the “bistro” and order a chicken breast sandwich. It comes with greasy fries and coleslaw mixed with high fat mayonaise. They don’t have fat free dressing for their salads. No, they won’t substitute the greasy fries for a baked potato because the chief doesn’t know how to cook one. I told them to just give me the chicken breast sandwich with no mayo, no greasy fries and no coleslaw. The waitress brought it to me anyway. Why are they giving me this high fat greasy poison? Do you think I want a heart attack. The fries end up getting thrown in the waste basket. The Terrace Restaurant at the Hilton has a healthy choice menu with a whole page of items saying how many grams of fat are in them last time I was there. The second floor view is even better than the crappy bunker. So, what good is the bunker if I have to take my friends to eat at the Terrace at the Hilton instead of the Bistro? What a waste of taxpayer dollars.
For something as expensive as the arena, it should have gone to referendum, not to left up to voting for the candidates. I don`t even remember any candidates being against the arena. His only strong opponent, Dr. Wingham, was also in favour of the arena.
Boardwalk is smart enough to not convert all their apartment buildings at once so they don`t blow their application fees by setting everyone off. When I look in the paper, I notice the announcements saying they`re converting two at a time to see what happens each month. Yes, council can stop it. Council can put a moratorium on condo conversions. Take a look at how long Council has stonewalled the Twin Spanning of the Ambassador bridge with the OMB. Another waste of taxpayer dollars. What`s worse with condo conversions is that the city planner told me that By-Law 8600 requries 1.25 on site parking spaces for each apartment for a condo application to succeed (but the committee has the discretion to make a special case exemption if they wish, but you risk blowing the application fee by technicality if you go ahead). 1547 Ouellette by Boardwalk went right on through and it has less parking spots than apartments. These were grounds to get it thrown out by technicality, but it wasn`t. Sept 14 A7 of the Windsor Star was an anouncement to amend by-law 8600 with By-Law 166-2007 to allow apartments with less than 1.25 parking to pass the application process in a condo conversion in the Central Business District. King Francis is sitting back and letting his friends at Boardwalk pass these condo conversions on these high rises and leaving the honest taxpayers with the burden of paying for this lost tax revenue. This is backdoor politicing at it`s worst and he should resign.
Who says WFCU has community support. Not me. Both of them are wrong for this city. I know what WFCU is about from personal experience. That`s why I discredit them. King Francis has done more than enough to discredit himself without the WFCU.
I’ve been a fan of this site for a couple of years now. Love all the old photos and history lessons. Even enjoy the back and forth debating between visitors to the site . However the seemingly personal attacks are too much DAVID . Even your opinion is valued , but is not the be all end all of all human knowledge . Tone it down and keep it relevant. Thanx again for all the great information and photography Andrew.
I don’t believe the arena issue should have been put up for a referendum. Whether you agree with their decisions or not, Francis and council were elected fairly by the people of this city and we need to live with their decisions. These people are elected to make choices for our city. If you believe the arena was a referendum issue, what’s stopping every other major decision from being put to a city-wide vote? Now we’re talking about a completely different political system…
The point is, like it or not, these people have been chosen to lead by a majority of the people of Windsor and those people wanted an arena.
P.S. I kinda like the fries at Bistro.
Thanks JAYPEE.
I try to leave the comments on here as open as possible. So if David or others say things that people don’t agree with just ignore him
. As long as the back and forth bickering on the comments doesn’t cross “the line”, I’ll try to leave it to stay.
There aren’t many open forums on the internet for people to argue and discuss things in this city, and as long as it isn’t profane, I would like to give everyone their say.
While the site is mostly about history and architecture, sometime it runs into current events, that’s usually where things get heated…
I agree with David, some good points but what can you do except vote differently. We the small guys n they’re the big guys.
P.S. The greasy fries at Bistro are pretty good.
Downtown is the right place for the arena just as City leaders from the 1980s had envisioned and planned. Parking is really not an issue downtown because we already have a lot of parking garages which are not being used to anything near capacity and another could be built if need be. Sadly, the reasons the public gave their three cheers to the arena in the east end were born out of political and personal frustration and the need for more community ice pads. After all, we need someplace for our kids. No real thought was given to the commercial viability of the arena’s main venues. That is, the Windsor Spitfires and top rung entertainment; the latter being the critical money maker. Ask Londoners about this one. It is doubtful that you will see any Springstiens or Celines playing there. Especially because of it’s lopsided multiple use function. As popular as the John Labatt Center is now, it is still not fully solvent and remember…it is operated by a private consortium specialized in such operations. It’s packing in just under 6000 tops, about double what Windsor is currently pulling. What few Windsorites are aware of is that London went through a similar learning curve before the Labatt Center was planted downtown. The original hockey venue was built in the suburbs very near the 401 and Wellington Ave. It turned out to be a bust; never filling to more than 3000 users. So here is my bet: The new arena will not be a commercial success where it is. It will do fine as a community recreational center which caters to the hockey families. It will fail as an entertainment venue. Hockey crowds will spike with the novelty of it’s newness and settle back down to a maximum of 3000. Walmart, Zellers, The building Box, East Side Marios, Burger King, Montanas and the A&W will not see any spin off business. East Windsorites will bitch about traffic. Downtown Windsor will remain status quo. Call me on it if I’m wrong.
We can whine all day about the dumb location for this arena (and the political favours it drew because of said location). But it is what it is.
How abot getting this lame mayor and council moving on making a better downtown. Open up the Capitol theatre, give tax incentives to business AND HOME OWNERS who are trying to gentrify an area or refurbish old houses/buildings.
These things will improve a downtown quicker than most “schemes” of the day.
The status quo of spend, spend spend with little to show has got to stop. Especially in todays economic market (which contrary to popular belief will not be cyclical this time around).
Look at everything this city has and the majority of it has been done on the back of small groups or individuals. Little has been done by the city itself as everything this city touches becomes a nightmare of increased costs and half expectations.
If you are all waiting for the city to turn itself around then you are one of the mindless apathetic voters in this community who have helped create the issue we have in fornt of us. It is US who makes this city, not the other way around! I implore all of you to put yoru time or money where your mouth is and help make this city a shining example to the rest of Canada and the world. DO SOMETHING to make a change!
Rah! Rah! Rah! Now, hands up everyone who has been downtown in the last week? OK, the last month?? The last year? Now, be honest.
You’ve heard the phrase, “use it or lose it”. For those who say they love downtown, the best thing you can do for it (after one is done bustin’ council’s chops and pointing fingers on the local blogs) is to go there and support a local merchant, restauranter, etc. Don’t tell me there is not at least ONE downtown business that deserves your support.
ME said it is “US” who makes this city and he is probably closer to the truth than he realizes. Windsor keeps shouting at council “do something to save downtown” but will Windsor put its money where its mouth is, leave the minivan in the driveway and rediscover downtown?
If you believe what the blogs say, downtown is a wasteland, which is a self-perpetuating prophecy that will come true if we keep this negativity up. Yes, the Norwich Block is gone, and the Capital is in limbo for years to come, we can’t change what has happened. But we can change the fate of what is still there, and in doing so perhaps encourage other businesspeople to join the club. It will take more than 11 people to turn things around…
How about commercial property owners stepping up to the plate and making some solid investments in the downtown core without continually looking for incentives and hand outs? (you would do it for your own home) How about establishing proper property standards and enforcing them accordingly? How about offering something that more than one market segment can utilize? How about planning and establishing the RIGHT mix of retail, service and entertainment businesses to bring more variety into play? How about pitching properly for new anchors? It’s not about naysayers at all. People are trying to communicate why they are NOT going downtown any more and they are offering up advice. It appears as if no one is listening.
i think the WFCU arena might be the catalyst that brings downtown Windsor back to life. Why go to a kiddie bar to get drunk when you can go to a Spitfires game at the WFCU where you can drink beer AND watch professional hockey players beat each other up like real fighters? A good hockey fight always beats a bar fight in my book.
“downtown Windsor died the day they put the wrecking ball to the Norwich block”…….how about “downtown Windsor died in 1968 during th race riots in Detriot” or “downtown Windsor died the day they put the shovel in the ground and began construcion on Devonshire Mall”.
The Norwich block was just another casualty on a long list of events which have occured over the years to bring us to where we are today.
Regardless of the cause or causes, a quantum shift has occured over the years in terms of where Windsorites choose to spend their leisure time and money. Until that changes and the residents of this city start to go downtown nothing is going to change.
You can do all the streetscaping and facade enhancing you want, but none of it will amount to anything until the predominating perception of the downtown changes. It seems like popular opinion is that all that exhists downtown are bars full of 19 and 20 year old Americans and x-rated massage parlours. This just isn’t true – take the riverfront for instance – it wasn’t that long ago that it was adorned with barbed wire fence and railroad tracks. I’d love to know how many locals have walked along there in the last ten years.
If Eddie Francis or any of this city’s leaders truly want to see our downtown flourish they need to challange the residents of the city to head downtown and see first hand the changes that are being made. if Windsorites don’t even want to go downtown how can they expect non-Windsorites to spend time there? There’s still a lot of room for improvement but I truly believe most people would be in for a plesant surprise.
I use the riverfront trail almost weekly. However, vibrant livable downtowns have a good mix of retail, office and entertaiment. The retail is dismal, and vacancy is at an all time high, and thanks to piss poor planning soon the Arena and hockey team will be far from downtown too taking a nice cut out of the entertainment side of things. Add the capitol to the mix and we really are going to end up with just restaurants and bars.
Be careful what you wish for – one day you will be pining for the day when houses were dirt cheap and there was no traffic or condos downtown. In an odd way, I kind of miss the old crappy Detroit downtown.
Commercial residents are not going to step up to the plate and make solid investments in downtown and downtown is not going to flourish if residents are challenged to see the changes in downtown. The reality is that these kind of moral statements have already been tried and they just don’t work. Look at downtown and see for yourself. I go through the Windsor riverfront trails weekly too. Not to check out downtown Windsor, but to see the Detroit skyline with their beautiful high rises adorning the skyline the Commercia building, Buhl, Guardian, Penobscott, Book Tower, Book Cadiallac, etc., over the Detroit River. If Windsor had the kind of beautiful architecture like Detroit has, I’d be down there a lot more. Removing the Clearly Guest house never had an impact on my decision and was such a collossal waste of taxpayer money. Take a look! The Bistro never increased downtown traffic. I still go to the Riverfront and I’m sure a lot of other citizens go to visit the Riverfront too, but not to walk through downtown.
As for downtown Windsor, it sucks! There’s nothing to do there except to check out the Riverfront. The returns on streetscaping improvements have already gone beyond its peak and its offering nothing but increasing diminishing returns on that investment. But, that’s only a small part of the picture. The big reason why downtown Windsor and all the positive statements about visiting downtown won’t do jack is because there’s no major anchors in downtown anymore. And, that’s why the small retail shops are dying in downtown. Devonshire Mall is so successful because they’ve got major anchors there like Sears, the Bay, Zeller’s. It might shift a little as Future Shop and Home Depot move to Walker Rd. And, that’s why Devonshire Mall has no vacancies, is packed on the weekends, and the little retail shops like American Apparel, Smart Set, book stores, etc., keep going bankrupt in downtown Windsor. No one wants to visit downtown without a major anchor. Most people just bypass downtown and check out the Riverfront. Go to downtown Toronto. Again, major anchors in the Eaton’s centre and the area around there is thriving and packed with people on the weekends. Yet, in other areas of Toronto without major anchors, the streets are pretty much dead. Even downtown Detroit. Before the riots in 1967 when people weren’t scared of getting mugged and beaten around every corner, they had major anchors like the Kresge’s and the 18 floor Hudson’s Department Store, which in the 1950’s had over 100,000 people go through the entrance doors each day.
That’s the problem with WIndsor. No major anchors. There’s the casino, but without a second one (say on the urban village lands behind the AGW) to motivate someone to walk from the one casino to the other and walking through downtown to get there they’re gonna stay inside Casino Windsor. Niagara Falls has two casinos and it’s done wonders for revitalizing the whole strip between the two casinos. I’ve seen Niagara Falls before and after the two casinos where there and what a difference. The one casino didn’t do the job to revitalize Niagara Falls like the two casinos did. The Arena and the Capitol would have been anchors to get people to visit downtown again, but the mayor screwed both up for downtown and failed us again.
If the Mayor wants to fix up downtown, it needs to lower the business taxes and try to solicit major anchors like Sears, the Bay, Zehr’s, Home Depot, etc. to downtown. Offer them the urban village lands if they don’t want another casino on it. Just check out the parking lots and volume of people surrounding commercial areas with major anchors and compare it with downtown WIndsor. That’s the problem with downtown. Lack of major anchors. And, the office building tax rate to set up shop in downtown is way too high to encourage out-of-city corporations to move down here.
The Mayor doesn’t understand this and never will. He should resign so someone with a basic understanding of economics can restore downtown. Everything he does just puts another nail in the downtown Windsor coffin and the city. And, the urban village lands are still a parking lot. And, soliticiting an engineering building that won’t even pay property taxes is a big mistake. Students aren’t going to spend the kind of money needed to jumpstart and revitalize downtown.
David, you don’t need a major anchor like The Bay or Home Depot to have a vibrant downtown. All you need to have a healthy downtown is a commitment from Windsor’s business, labour and civic leaders to work together to do whatever it takes to make downtown Windsor thrive. That’s not going to happen in my lifetime because the idiots in charge over at City Hall could care less about what happens to the city or its’ citizens. They’re only concerned with keeping themselves in power and lining their pockets with taxpayer money. Windsor is being run like Detroit in the 1970’s and 80’s.
“…in other areas of Toronto without major anchors, the streets are pretty much dead”.
I’m not sure how familiar you are with Toronto but this statement is quite inaccurate. Pretty much anywhere you go in Toronto, the streets are filled with people at all hours of the day and night, and this has nothing to do with having “major anchors” in the area. In fact, the number of privately-owned, “mom & pop”-type businesses in Toronto is truly staggering, and for the most part they seem to be doing fine. Granted, some areas are less busy than others, but I’m continually amazed by the sheer numbers of thriving businesses and shopping districts in the city. In most areas you’d be hard pressed to find any vacant retail space.
Of course, this situation is entirely different from Windsor due to the sheer numbers of people in the city. In my opinion, Windsor has fallen victim to urban sprawl to such a degree that there just aren’t enough people in the city core anymore to support a thriving downtown. However, I hope I’m wrong.
One other thing – if one were to take an informal poll of Windsor residents, I suspect you’d find that most folks under 25 frequent the downtown area regularly. The hard part is attracting families, seniors etc to the downtown core, especially since the notion of downtown Windsor as a bastion of drunken hooliganism seems to have firmly taken hold of the city’s collective psyche.
I used to work in Toronto, so I know the city. Last time I checked, Queen Street between Landsdowne and Dufferin were dead because of no major anchors in the area. I mean, they manage to get a lot of it rented, but there are very few people walking around those areas during the day. There’s a mall a number of blocks north of there and it’s packed because of the major anchor, but that’s it. Queen Street to the east around the warehouse district is also weak. When you get into Beaches, it’s ok. There’s a lot of commercial streets in Toronto were people aren’t walking around during the day. It’s because there aren’t major anchors there. Same with downtown Detroit. There are lots of office buildings and office workers there, but no major anchors like Hudson’s Department Store there anymore, so after work, people just get into their cars and drive home and that’s why if you walk around downtown Detroit during the day or evening there are very few people walking around. The Greater Detroit area has a population of 5.5 million people. The Greater Toronto area has a population of 5.5 million people. Where the heck is everyone who works in Detroit? They’re around the major anchors and that’s not in downtown Detroit. Same thing with Windsor. With no major anchors, there are very few people. I mean, what’s the point of going somewhere with a major anchor? Just look at anyplace in Windsor with major anchors. The Costco parking lot on Walker is always filled. Same with the Real Canadian Superstore parking lot and the Zehr’s up at Tecumseh and Lauzon. Huron Church and Tecumseh with major anchors like Canadian Tire also is packed. There’s a high correlation between major anchors and people. This is not a theory. It’s a fact!
Remove two of the major anchors from Devonshire Mall like Sears and the Bay, and you’ll see that mall crumble. You’ll see at least half the retail shops there vanish with them. I’ve seen the same thing happen with other malls in other cities. When downtown Windsor was vibrant, it had a lot of anchors. A&P in the Mother’s part of Club 801. Loblaws on Tuscarora and Ouellette where the Bingo Hall now is. I think there was a Zellers were the Herb Gray Centre was. The Metropolitan, which had the gas explosion, Woolworth, etc., and this is what attracted the high end small retail shops like Birks, jewelers and a whole bunch of others. There were a lot of major anchors years ago, which isn’t the case today and that’s why downtown was bustling back then and it’s dead today.
I walked around downtown today just to see what other small retail shops folded this month and looked at the Palace billboard and it said, “We’re still open”, and had to laugh. Piss poor planning by city hall. The mayor needs to call it quits for this mess and resign. Overpriced and unnecesary bus terminals and bunkers and costly street improvements are not what taxpayers should be wasting their money on. How about an Ikea or a Costco on the urban village lands?? There’s a lot of major anchors that could turn downtown around, but the mayor just doesn’t get it.
David, I live in Parkdale and I can assure you that there are plenty of people walking around on Queen West between Landsdowne and Dufferin during the day. I’ll concede that there isn’t much going on at night, but I believe this is due to Parkdale’s largely undeserved bad reputation. However, gentrification is slowly creeping west along Queen (Starbucks @ Landsdowne; the Drake & Gladstone hotels recently undergoing extensive renovations, etc).
As for the mall you speak of, I’m assuming you mean Dufferin Mall. As far as I know, the only “major anchor” there is Walmart. Is that what you’d suggest for downtown Windsor???
I think putting a Costco downtown would do nothing for the street life. Windsor once had a thriving downtown filled with locally-owned businesses and there’s no reason to believe we can’t have a thriving downtown again. What we need are more people my age [people in their late 30’s and early 40’s] with young kids living and working in the city core.
Maybe things have changed recently in that area if there are plenty of people walking around that strip of Queen between Landsdowne and Dufferin. I don’t know about gentrification though. But, put a several major anchors there like Ikea, Sears, the Bay, Chapters Superstore and it might. It is still one of the cheaper areas of Toronto to find rent because no one wants to live there. I had a girlfriend who lived there. She found a room for rent for $300 a month with utilities and when she was looking around she found a lot of them like that in this area. That kind of rent is dirt cheap for Toronto and it tells you something about that area. People generally don’t want to live there. They want to live near a bunch of major anchors like you see in downtown Toronto. Downtown Windsor has a Starbucks too. So what?
Yes, that’s it. Dufferin Mall. It had a grocery store there too and as I remember all the little retail stores there were rented. Walmart is a major anchor. Walmart brings in a lot of traffic, as noted from the almost filled parking lots. Walmart is right across the street from Tecumseh Mall in Windsor and there’s still tonnes of small retail shops in Tecumseh Mall. All the commercial businesses, malls and plazas around that whole intersection are fully rented and all the parking lots are almost filled with cars. Walmart did not destroy everything around that intersection. Just the opposite. So absolutely, even Walmart would help revitalize downtown. It’s not my first choice, but it’s certainly a giant step in the right direction.
George, until this city helps people gentrify an area (as the entire downtown is filled with low-income residents and many slumlords) it will never happen. Businesses will not locate until there is enough people. Start by enticing people to live in a nice, crime-free area and help with restoring some houses or demolishing the ones that are unsalvageable and then people will come.
David, the cheap rents in Parkdale have little to do with a lack of “major anchors” and more to do with the negative perception of Parkdale as a crime-ridden hell hole. Yes, it’s still a little rough around the edges, but I’ve seen major changes in the few years I’ve been living here, and it’s bad reputation is largely undeserved. I think it’s a great place to live – vibrant, multi-cultural, interesting, and only minutes from downtown via TTC.
And yes, you could probably find a room for $300 (maybe), but for a 2 bedroom apartment you’re looking at around $1000 (at least), just like anywhere else in Toronto.
Every area has crime in it. Crime free areas don’t exist unless there’s no people in it. But, when you’re lacking in positives like major anchors for an area, people generally avoid visiting it and just focus in on the negatives about the area. Are you saying that break and enters, car thefts, aggressive panhandlers yelling and mugging at passerbys, purse snatchers, pick pockets, shoot outs, etc., don’t occur in downtown Toronto?? You get crime everywhere, even though people more openly trash Parkdale than downtown Toronto as crime ridden. Not only do major anchors attract lots of people to visit, but it also changes people’s perceptions of an area and what they focus on when they get into a general conversation about it. If you live in an area, your perception changes as you focus on the positives, just like anyone else. You can defend it all you like, but without a lot of people motivated to visit the area, the city’s general perception of Parkdale isn’t going to change. And, that’s where the major anchors come in to the rescue.
Same with downtown Windsor. No major anchors there anymore except the casino (worth very little now since Detroit’s casinos like the MGM are now light years ahead) and the waterfront (for whatever that’s worse since Windsor is surrounded by waterfront, so you can go anywhere to see it). That’s why it gets trashed so much. Bring some major anchors in like the Bay, Costco, Ikea, and some more casinos (like Niagara Falls has) and you’ll see people’s general perceptions towards it change for the better. You can thank King Francis for his piss poor planning of downtown Windsor.
I just came across an article in the DFP about Commerica Bank. In 1998 just across the river in Detroit, Commerica Bank paid $66 million for naming rights to name the new Detroit Tigers stadium Commerica Park. So, in downtown Windsor where office rents cost more than downtown Detroit, WFCU paid 2% of what Commerica Bank paid for naming rights, yet the arena is bigger than 2% the size of Commerica Park.
The way I see it, the bars and the casino’s aren’t going anywhere anytime soon…so instead of trying to fight what we have, work with it. Glitz and glamour doesn’t always mean beer and bodies. Let’s work some family features into downtown tourism. Get a Dave n Busters or ESPN Zone type family/arcade restaurant and drop it next to the AGW….we have a whole greneration that never had a fast eddy’s (norwich block for the newbies) and why in the hell can Niagra Fall have a Great Wolf Lodge and we can’t….there’s a half dozen water park hotels that have popped up Ohio and Michigan within a 2 hour drive of Windsor and yet we haven’t thought gee..families might come and stay in Windsor if we had one of those?
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! If you build it they will come. How many people do you know that are naive enough to take a family vacation at wheels in chatham (no offence) but we can do better than that! With the dollar being what it is, we have to stop the Canadian Tourist dollar on this side of the border or we may never get it back.
Wow!!
Leave a city for a couple of years and see how it transforms itself, or implodes.
David, a lots of interesting comments, although I really didn;t read through all the diatripes I got the gist. On the mortgage aspect, you as a small business owner are one step up from a sub-prime candidate – you are what the mortgage industry call an ALT-A loan. Which means the documents you prepare for the institution are done by you, and not a lending firm. Meaning, not implying, that as a small business owner you can represent yourself in what ever light (and documentation wise) you need. But unfortunely, those docs are prepared by you, and not a bank, meaning you are ALT A. Meaning, a conservative, Schedule B Bank- ie Credit Union – will not chance the loan. If your established, then go to a Schedule A bank and quit complaing.
As for Francis, LOL, when did we start blaming all of Windsor’s problems on the most recent pol? LOL…since day one? Well, lets get educated a bit.
Windsor’s problems date right back to the point when the mayor and board voted to move an Art Gallery to a Mall and move a casino into that Art Gallery. Plain and simle. Defining moment. Greed over culture. Greed over City wants. Greed over citizens of the downtown core. And lets go back to that point in time……pretty much every single shop, store, restaurant voted for it to happen. All thinking that the casino would bring wealth. Look how wrong they are now. I fought against the casino. Look over this city’s history, it has never had such crap going on in downtown.
Now, I do not know Francis, but he has this to deal with based on Mike Hurst’s lousy leadership and crimalistic ways two decades back.
So, to get to the point. I am glad that an arena that may host tournaments for minors, is not located a half block away from Jason’s /$$$ Dollar or whatever ballet is open at the time. Nor would I like to have my kids walking down the street with a bunch of underage am’s looking for a place to get another molson’s. Glad they put it out close to what windor may have for suburbia.
And if you want to revitalize the downtown core…………move the casino to a rural farm that was once an indian reservation.
That way, you won’t take away from the city stores and you can add more stores along the route to service those who want to drink / gamble.
Just me two cents…or nowaday’s…my one loon.
Why would you take and put an arena on the east end!!!! where is the logic in that?? Where has looking out for the downtown business gone. Thank our mayor, as long as his pockects are full, Why even bother caring for the downtown bussiness. Let down town become a ghost town mayor EDDIE !!!!!!!!
you guys need to think of who these new owners are targeting. They are not targeting the downtown crowd, they are targeting those in the higher economic chain (tecumseh). It is almost common knowledge that Reichel wants the arena in an area where he can attract the ‘wealth off’, not the average ticket buyer. think of what the maple leafs have. going to any leafs game and you will find the whole lower bowl riddled with suits and business owners who have SEASONS TICKETS, not the average joe who is going to buy one game tickets and not come back for a few weeks. I wish this arena would have been built in the downtown area. a look at london’s JLC is an example of the benefits a city can enjoy in having an entertainment area in a downtown core. But Reichel is is it for the profit of money and the spitfires, not the city.
The WFCU Job fair was horrendous. I waited in line for 2 and a half hours, there were at least 2,000 people there over the course of the day and I heard they were only hiring 50. Ridiculous, I’ve lost all hope for finding a decent job in this city.