I’m sure by now everyone has seen King Eddie’s latest legacy scheme. I’m not quite sure what to make of this plan, but I don’t like the idea of removing the last remnants of the residential area west of downtown for a hair-brained scheme like this.
It seems like this mayor is always after the silver bullet solution, rather than trying to fix the things in this city that are broken… But I digress…
If you haven’t seen the plan yet, click here for a high res version of the photo above.
Judging by the concept drawing supplied by his highness, it looks like all of the area shaded in yellow will be obliterated. In fact Chatham St. will cease to exist west of Church St.
I took a little cruise through the area last night to show off the sights to those of you that aren’t familiar with the area. Here’s a mid-century hydro sub-station.
A nice, well kept little house on Bruce.
Next door to that one, at the corner of Bruce and Pitt is the J. H. Beattie house, listed as being built c. 1892.
This currently commercial section of row houses along Chatham was formerly the offices of the Walkerville Times.
An old early 1900’s duplex.
Hard to tell from the renderings, but it looks like these two older buildings along Pitt St. between Chatham & Janette may be saved. One is currently the home of Acapulco Delight, who already had to move once when their building on Victoria just south of University was demolished for a much needed parking lot.
A view south along Janette from Pitt.
I suppose we’ll have to wait and see, but if Eddie’s track record counts for anything, than there’s nothing to worry about as it will never get done…
What do you guys make of this plan? For the out of towners, click here to read the media’s coverage…
Andrew–I have to weigh-in on this. I personally find the plan interesting and innovative.and have been really taken aback by the negative reactions I’ve been reading/hearing. While I expected the usual negative Windsor-types to come out of the gate saying “this will never happen, Windsor is a hole, etc”–I am shocked by the number of supposedly progressive-minded people who’ve come out to declare this project as “hair-brained” and to attack Francis for it.
I find the concept innovative and bold. I am no great fan/supporter of Eddie Francis–but the idea of ‘extending’ the waterfront inland is a game-changer for that entire district. Nothing since the original arena proposal has come even close to befitting the “western super-anchor” label–but the creation of this marina district has the potential to begin the process of transforming the city’s self-image, as well as it’s image elsewhere. Since the phobia of building anything commercial along Riverside Drive seems well-entrenched (as proven by the mania over a ticket office for a tour boat operator), building these canals seem to be a means of bringing developable waterfront land to market and changing the entire feel of the core area…unless of course these canals get built only to have a groundswell of support come to bear for all canalfront lands to be parks, in which case we’d be back at square one.
It looks like an interesting idea in my opinion but I really think the state of Oulette ave. should be taken care of before they start doing stuff like this. One would think our downtown’s revitalization would take priority over a canal.
I don’t believe there will ever be any other opportunity to bring the river inland like this allowing this asset to be leveraged. I get, that the Beattie house is an important asset.
Sounds like this makes for a great debate
I am personally opposed to this plan and there are many reasons why. I object to this notion that we have to terraform our own planet because nature did not give us a nice enough waterfront. People are comparing this to Venice and don’t understand how they can say that with a straight face. Nobody goes to Venice just because there is water there. They go because of the history and the romantic mystique that has been propagated about the city. Venice has been a wonder of the world longer than Windsor has been a dot on a map.
This plan is going to cost a lot of money and we are already paying for a number of things in this city. I don’t want my taxes to go up even further! I believe Windsor would benefit from a reduction in taxes and levies, not another increase. I believe millions of dollars should be spent attracting high-tech and other businesses to Windsor, instead. If Windsor has jobs and the city leaders work to make the place a desirable (meaning safe and relatively low cost) location to live in, then private interests will come and build here on their own. Work on improving existing schools, parks, roads, health-care, etc. Stop subsidizing urban sprawl.
I believe the city needs to come up with plans to help downtown property owners refurbish and maintain their existing buildings instead of letting them get rundown and eventually demolished.
In my opinion this is really nothing more than hare-brained scheming on Fast Eddie’s part. I don’t think this plan will ever come to fruition, but if by some chance it does it will prove to be a waste of $70,000,000. Is the average Windsorite going to benefit from this? No. If anything, this project will turn into an expensive haven for retired Yuppies from the GTA. Most Windsorites will not be able to afford to live there. The best they can hope for would be to gaze in wonder at this over-priced enclave of the wealthy as their taxes continue to blast upwards into the stratosphere. Windsor has a million problems which need to be addressed before Clowncil should even consider a fiasco like this.
What a circus!!! I dont think it will happen and I dont want it to, you really think that water going to that nice of a colour going through downtown it will just be a overpriced,overpolluded, glorified ditch. by the way wheres the 25 story water slide extending from the condos the the canal!!!! might as well go all out!!!
The comments above are the reason why nothing can get accomplished in the downtown. Whatever “idea” get brought up as a way to improve the City of Windsor, people immediately dump (I would rather use the other sh-t word) on it and complain and cry that the “idea” is no good, stupid, far-fetched (insert any other negative word you want here). Only in Windsor can we automatically try to rip apart an idea of renewal and “out-of-the-box” thinking. We come up with excuses why it “idea” can’t work. In this case, someone talk about the “mid-century hydro sub-station” and the half dozen or so homes (which homes are very nice and well-kept, I give you that). For heavens sakes, 50% of the area, as shown by the airphoto, is parking lot area! But why can’t these people look beyond this and see that the proposal (IF IT EVER HAPPENS, YES I UNDERSTAND THAT), contemplates far more residential density/units for the area, that is currently there. I was at the Artcite meeting a few months ago, and many kept stressing the importance of bringing people back to the downtown to live, work and play. Now, this “idea” envisions residential units, and people here post that the units will be “to expensive” and only for “yuppys from the GTA”!! Honestly……you can’t win, can you! People cry about the need for downtown revitalization, and whenever someone speaks up and proposes an “idea”, they get run out of town with negative comments. Someone mentioned that they should not “subsidize urban sprawl” by doing this, and then goes on to say that the city should invest in schools, parks and roads…ROADS! That’s what has always been happening. Spending tax money so that cars can get from point A to point B. And how is this project subsidizing urban sprawl, this is a project for DOWNTOWN revitalization. It boggles my mind. I don’t think people stop and think things through before they touch pen to paper. All we do is start coming up with excuses why something wont work. Its going to be an “overpriced,overpolluded, glorified ditch”, “my taxes will go up”…what else?, is the value of your house going to decrease?…..are we all going to die because of west nile virus in the summer?…..OMG…the humanity!!!!
Windsor always acts like the “grumpy man on the porch”. We are always so quick to be negative, depressed and dismiss things.
And we wonder why nothing has improved downtown….HMMMM. It makes me laugh….and get fed-up/angry.
Here is my longest post ever on IM.
As a person who has a vested interest in this I will say the following:
Will the entire area be levelled or can they build the canals around existing homes? If they can build skyscrapers around one story businesses in NY they can do the same here.
Who is going to fill all of those condos? Since condos do not hold value very well who would they serve (especially since Windsor is losing population not gaining population)? Not everyone wants to live in a condo nor will. This is why I believe some or most of the houses should stay or be moved around the urban village. As it adds another dimension to the area other than condos, condos, condos.
Why can’t they move the canal to Park St? Not only would it feed two birds with one piece of bread by removing a very low income/very high crime area but it would also be a catalyst to improve the small neighbourhood THAT ALREADY EXISTS. Thusly, the ENTIRE area that would benefit would grow.
The same cannot be said for the current plan because the housing stock south of Park St. on Janette and Bruce are in very poor shape. The gentrification just won’t happen unless that area is levelled.
What about expropriation? Will the city expropriate the land? If so I sure am not going to get the money I have sunk into my house. Should I know put all of my construction on hold because of this and for how long?
I also have witnesses to Ron Jones stating that an urban village will be built and that I would be ahead of the curve if I were to purchase my house (this is back in 2005). If the city is going to expropriate they had better have deep pockets because I am not moving nor selling. I was promised an urban village and that is why I moved downtown; To be a part of the new urban village and to raise my family in an urban setting. Who can tell me where I can live downtown in a beautiful little neighbourhood with little crime and find a house in such good shape as the one I have currently purchased? It doesn’t exist! My house was built by a former councillor James MacMurray, so historical designation migh tbe in the works. To add insult to injury I am in contact with the very same family who are ecstatic that the house still exists and who have stated to me that the house was the central focus point of the entire family until 1945!
If the city doesn’t expropriate and leaves it up to the developers, all of the speculators who have sat on their vacant properties for years are going to want the biggest bang for their dollar which will drive up the cost of the development.
My other issue with this is why the mayor’s office did not contact the residents first. Yet again Eddie talks about visitors, visitors, visitors and not one word about existing HIGH TAXPAYING RESIDENTS. Take a look at the review panel, NOT ONE RESIDENT! Talk about a slap in the face to those of us who have been gentrifying the area! I guess if your not a buddy of Eddie you are ignored…go figure on biting the hand that feeds you Eddie!
I think the idea is interesting but I don’t think it should come at the expense of the existing neighbourhood. If we go back a few years for the original urban village an RFP was NEVER even sent out. Why when according to Mr. Jones, 3 developers (2 from the USA and 1 from Canada) were interested?
I don’t think a canal needs to be built in order ot attract people to live downtown. Build quality row houses and condos, give good incentives for home owners to restore their houses and I am sure the area would be filled in quickly. As it stands their is little incentive to do just that. And having what I call the “war zone” (block south of Park Ave on Janette & Bruce) continue to have high crime while the police turn a blind eye doesn’t help the situation much. When I call police to state I see drug deals in th eopen when I go for a walk and nothing happens is just mind boggling. Who is going to put up with that crap?
Clean up the core first before you try and re-invent it!
If some of the finer existing buildings could be incorporated into the plan, I think it’s a fantastic concept. It’s visionary – too visionary for some it would seem! If you would like to see the downtown revitalized and create a future heritage district for generations to come, then build this. No half measures or watered down versions – build it right!
he needs to be put in a padded room for this one. the cost would be insane and it’s just so stupid. one minute it’s a arena, then a university, next it’s a canal? wish they would think before they go tearing things down in this city.
right now streets around the new bus station have buses parked all the time idling, where will they go? or all the parking. as it’s shown with housing and a marina for some high end housing, only a select few would be able to use that space anyway. so why spend all that money just for a select few? when the rest of the city won’t even be able to use it. stupid…
Terry, I agree with you. But remember, this could never possibly work here in Windsor. We can’t have a canal built…..(searching through my BOOK OF EXCUSES)….ah, found one, Excuse #57: people will get drunk and fall over into it and drown……oh, and #82: this project can never happen, its too big for us! (I hope you identify the sarcasm)
ESD, there are not half a dozen homes. In fact there are 17 houses to which half are owner occupied with the remainder housing apartments (some luxury, some standard). That is not even including the highrise apartments on Pitt St. and the 6 businesses (not including all of the businesses on University Ave).
Again I like the idea and I am even willing to allow my taxes to sky-rocket (which they will) but I am not going to lose my house over it.
The only halfway decent marina in all of essex county on the detroit river is Lakeview. It is obvious that none of these mover shaker types spend any time actually on the water. There is zero safe refuge for any passing boater travelling lake erie to/from lake stclair on the canadian side. nothing in Aburg, Lasalle, Tecumseh
This canal is another half assed plan that actually does not go far enough. If you want people to enjoy a water feature from a sidewalk cafe – hellooooo!!! the river is there!!!!
Take this money and build a breakwall or 2 on the river, dredge up some slips – 200-300 of them and attract the boaters that we see travelling the river from near and all over the world – literally. There are boaters that travel from everywehere to cruise the great lakes and windsor doesnt welcome any of them, but rather, windsor gives a cold shoulder — no fuel, no food, no provisions, nothing to see here!! – just move along please!!–
People are attracted to people. Allow there to be some boat and water activity at the river ( novel idea eh! ) and this will pay dividends forever.
This idea is stupid……I’m taking my ball and going home……pout!
(Sarcasm, once again)
Boy misery loves company, the negative excuses (which are not even proven/justified) and fyling left and right.
Ya, nobody will be able to use this area….ya…..residents won’t be able to walk the canal, stop at a patio and have a drink, or at a restaurant along the cannal and have dinner, or have a glass of wine on the boardwalk…..no that wont be able to happen…could it?. Only the rich people can do that……C’MON!
Wait, wait,…..I want to say it also, it must make you feel good to say it, “This is stupid”…… HA HA! Its unbelievable!
At first glance this seems like a very good idea. People need to live downtown in order to get it going again. And who’s to say that some of the remaining old-stock homes can’t be fitted into the plan?
The point is that something needs to happen there in order to bring back downtown. It would bring an influx of cash into a depressed area of the city, make downtown walkable for a number of residents and generally be an improvement over the parking lots that make up the majority of the site.
On the other hand, I don’t think it will ever happen given the 20+ year history of nothing happening on the site. And Eddie’s seeming lack of ability to make any positive change in the city.
So everyone who doesn’t nod their head enthusiastically in acceptance of this plan – which means 100 million dollars plus overruns of ratepayers tax dollars – is just a typical miserable ole Windsor naysayer? Got it! Why don’t we all just not even bother thinking critically and sign over power of attorney over our bank accounts to city council and bypass that whole nasty process where the community interferes with thier unwanted input?
NEWSFLASH: The few in power are there to represent us, not the other way around!
ME,
I agree with all of your comments. Your concerns are valid and just. I too would not want to lose my home. But even you, who actually lives there and has a vested interest in the area, and actually HAS something to lose, if this gets developed, still sees the merits and “positives” of this “idea”. You don’t just start bashing it.
The plan would need to address existing businesses and residents, such as allowing existing businesses first choice of re-locating in the new commercial district. As for residents, at the top of my head, that is a more difficult nut to crack. Not sure about that one, of the top of my head. The point is, that these issues don’t need to blow the idea up. They are issues that need resolution.
GRUMPY MAN,
Can you tell me where you read that this project will be a “100 million dollars plus overruns of ratepayers tax dollars”. What document states that tax-payers are funding this? I would like to know. Hint: Don’t jump to conclusions.
Also,
I am not just “nodding my head enthusiastically “. I am just giving the idea a chance to unfold and see where it goes. We have only been given a bit of the info on this proposal. Its only 1 day old.
You talk about “thinking critically “….how does being negative and only looking and one side of the story mean that someone is “thinking critically”. “Thinking critically” means looking at the pro’s and con’s, and identiying the possibilites and constraints of an idea, not just dumping on it at the first chance you get. Take a moment, review the information as its made available, and then make your decision. Keep an open mind. Don’t just dismiss it after looking at an artistic rendering and a couple of articles in the Windsor Star.
I like the concept- it is innovative and interesting- my late father-in-law Mayor Bert Weeks proposed something along this line in the late 70s for the cut at Cameron and Riverside rive…
I once owned a building down there as Andrew indicates in his slide show- I waited four years for something to happen in the Urban Village- the guy I bought it from waited nine year- the guy before him waited 6 years- and so it goes…
Bear in mind that this location has been the focus of many concepts- the guy piloting this latest one was part of the group that wanted the arena down there Killer Bs as they were called- (right- $65 million later and counting on the new arena that benefits Tecumseh more than Windsor- I guess we could really use that $60 million today to build this new concept!)
So call me cynical but I doubt this one sees the light of day…
If the city needs to move the houses in order to build the canals then I believe we should have the right to have the houses moved to where we want them or take the money offered. Personally I would like my house to be a part of the urban village. I am not asking for any more square footage of my property, nor am I asking for any extra monies. Just the fact that I want to be a part of this great endeavour. In other words, I am not looking to get “paid”.
I think this has great potential and I will be interested to see the outcome of the study to see if it is feasible.
However, I believe that for this to work the city needs to stop the sprawl and start to look at the core. We cannot as it stands do both. The city is not large enough and not growing fast enough to do both sprawl and this type of construction.
ME,
Yes I agree with you completely. Finally, someone who sees the good and the possibilities.
I agree, this could be the catalyst that has the city start focusing on the core and not the suburbs. But as you see, its hard for that to happen when all the city gets back is negative hostility whenever they look at options. In the end, the city would probably take the stance of “who cares, whats the point…whatever we bring up, people will find a reason to be against.”.
You see what I’m trying to get across to everyone.
It’s a nice feature, but I don’t think it is going to efficiently deliver on the intended goals of the project.
The whole philosophy of spending lots of government money on a big project to bring in other development seems to be misguided, but it is all Windsor municipal governments ever seem to understand. I don’t think we need a “western super anchor”. And, by the way, how’s that eastern super anchor doing when it comes to building a vibrant downtown?
If you look at the picture, the benefits to the city that really help are the new buildings, businesses and homes. Why would this canal cause those buildings to be built? We already long stretches of beautiful waterfront, but we still have properties sitting vacant.
Yes the canal is nice, but how much nicer is it than what we’ve already got? Is it worth the investment and effort?
Or could that effort and money be applied in other ways that would be more efficient at drawing residents and business into that area?
Some people are asking questions and others are accusing us of thinking small or being down on Windsor. The truth is there are other ways to move forward than for City Hall to keep shutting down businesses and tearing down homes to build their megaprojects.
Anyone looking for a demonstration of how a marina can bolster residential and commercial development should visit Sandwich. Ooops, cancel that,. Empty stores and houses for sale despite a marina within easy walking distance. The Windsor Harbour Commission closed the federally-owned Mill Cove Marina in 2005 after 20 years of barely being able to break even or losing money. It was reported since 9/11 up to one-third of the 4,300 berths in all Essex County marinas have gone vacant
RWS, that also has to do with the lower water table. The cost of dredging is too expensive for most of the smaller marina’s. So it isn’t just 9/11 (the scapegoat for all that ills N. America).
I still would rather they try this than to continue to let the area sit as it is.
First of all, ESD, I agree with everything you’ve said here; I’d say it myself if you hadn’t already. Second, I think this is a wonderful idea. Note: I said IDEA, I don’t know, nor do any of us know, whether or not this will ever happen here, but we need to focus on the actual idea itself. I give a lot of credit to the urban designer who came up with this. Look at it this way, have any of us thought of anything of this magnitude yet? I know I haven’t.
We all have to realize that right now, the way we stand, we’re not attracting any new or high-tech business. Windsor is relatively cheap compared to most significant North American cities, and has drastically lower crime rates than most, if not all, large cities, so clearly that is not enough to trigger a boom. You have to realize that if we don’t do anything but advertise, there won’t be any “revitalization” in our city. With a project like this, not only are we bringing in totally family-friendly activities to our community, but people in other places will see that things can happen here. IF this canal does happen, it will attract other investors to our downtown area. Large-scale, useful, beneficial development won’t happen with downtown being in the state it is. This canal would attract more development to the area, and those developments would attract even more. Point is, it has to start somewhere, and it has to be something worthwhile. Slapping stucco on all the dingy storefronts downtown isn’t going to change the city’s image.
Some people complain about costs, well, you have to invest money in order to enjoy it. If you’re not willing to pay anything, nothing will happen. Good times are not going to fall from the sky and bestow themselves upon our city. If you were to move to any city in the world where exciting activities, family-friendly venues, and cultural facilities exist, you’re going to be paying more than you would in a place where these places don’t exist.
One thing I constantly find is that people forget the definition of Democracy, from Jeremy Bentham: “The greatest good for the greatest number of people.”
Good one Kevin.
Greatest good for the greatest number of people. But just how many times can the same taxpayer get screwed by the same administration? Let us all just wait and see what the final outcome of the study is and then we can say whether it willbe worth it or not.
But frankly I am tired of people telling me what I can and can’t do with my property.
How would this fly if I stated the same to those who live in the burbs or south windsor with regards to a water park? Move people because this would be good for ALL of Windsor. It would NEVER happen.
So let this run it’s course and we can wait for the final numbers.
I partially like the idea as long as they blend in the historical buildings like the Beattie house into this district. The marina would pay for itself by renting out the docking wells. They could even sell part of it to cover the initial cost like the Windsor Yacht Club (private) beside Lakeview Marina (public). But, the canal beyond it is a stupid waste of tax dollars. Anything beyond the marina should be fully borne by developers as a surtax or special assessment on any condos erected there instead of the general taxpayer. It still could work. Just look at all the luxury condos in Glengarda Madyland by Dieppe Park. He managed to fill them and he’s still building there, so I’m sure they could find buyers here. Condos on Boblo also managed to attract big spenders. But, those costs must be fully borne by the developer, not the city and the general taxpayer.
We already HAVE a canal running through the city of Windsor. Didn’t anybody hear about the infamous Grand Marais ditch? I agree with Andrew. The canal won’t do a thing for the city. Why didn’t City Council invite St. Clair College architecture students to come up with plans for the vacant land? Why are we paying a bunch of high-priced consultants from Toronto to come up with a plan for the Western Super Anchor?
University/College architecture/engineering students cannot participate in the design/construction of public buildings as part of their cirriculum. You can blame arrogant union agreements for that clause.
The mayor’s proposal is absurd on so many levels it is difficult to know where to begin, but I’ll give it a try. a)trying to draw visitors to a riverwalk won’t work for eight months of the year. that’s why all the restaurants in the old Norwich block eventually failed. Tuesday nights in February will kill you. The plan makes perfect sense in Savannah Georgia or San Diego where the facilities can be enjoyed year round.b)I don’t know how yo break it to you all but there is little natural demand for the type of high density urban housing most of the plans backers support. Firstly, if there was demand it would be built. Market forces would compel its construction. Realize that high density housing is generally built in areas of high land values to maximize the return per acre. A hundred years ago people needed to live near where they worked so the land immediately adjacent to the downtown business district had high intrinsic value. Managers built fine homes along Victoria and workers built in higher density along bruce and church etc. Nobody works downtown anymore. The buildings like the Canada Building are two thirds vacant. No one NEEDS to live downtown. c)the mayor is talking only about building the infrastructure for this proposed development. the 120 million gets you a canal and a couple bridges. He is relying on private developers to fund the 500 million dollars worth of pretty building in the drawing. I find it hard to believe that developers will be chomping at the bit to invest that kind of money into an area that is likely to shrink 20-30,000 people over the next decade as the full effects of the collapse of the north American auto industry plays itself out. When I first saw the proposal in the Star my initial reaction was to suggest the entire area be rezoned agricultural. At least that would be unique. But I have another proposal, Look again at the pictures of the existing homes in the area. They are all quite beautiful, if lonely sentinels. Why not give them some company. The city could create ,through zoning,its own Greenfield Village by making this area the repository of the various endangered buildings in our community. Owners ar busually agreeable to donating such buildings as it saves them the cost of demolition.Each would be under private ownership. Not urban villagers, more like pioneers, The cost to the city would be buttons. Then the city could use the money saved by aborting the canal project to purchase the soon to be vacant Canderel building and build a row of reproduction 19thcentury commercial buidings to beautify our waterfront
The mayor’s proposal is absurd on so many levels it is difficult to know where to begin, but I’ll give it a try. a)trying to draw visitors to a riverwalk won’t work for eight months of the year. that’s why all the restaurants in the old Norwich block eventually failed. Tuesday nights in February will kill you. The plan makes perfect sense in Savannah Georgia or San Diego where the facilities can be enjoyed year round.b)I don’t know how yo break it to you all but there is little natural demand for the type of high density urban housing most of the plans backers support. Firstly, if there was demand it would be built. Market forces would compel its construction. Realize that high density housing is generally built in areas of high land values to maximize the return per acre. A hundred years ago people needed to live near where they worked so the land immediately adjacent to the downtown business district had high intrinsic value. Managers built fine homes along Victoria and workers built in higher density along bruce and church etc. Nobody works downtown anymore. The buildings like the Canada Building are two thirds vacant. No one NEEDS to live downtown. c)the mayor is talking only about building the infrastructure for this proposed development. the 120 million gets you a canal and a couple bridges. He is relying on private developers to fund the 500 million dollars worth of pretty building in the drawing. I find it hard to believe that developers will be chomping at the bit to invest that kind of money into an area that is likely to shrink 20-30,000 people over the next decade as the full effects of the collapse of the north American auto industry plays itself out. When I first saw the proposal in the Star my initial reaction was to suggest the entire area be rezoned agricultural. At least that would be unique. But I have another proposal, Look again at the pictures of the existing homes in the area. They are all quite beautiful, if lonely sentinels. Why not give them some company. The city could create ,through zoning,its own Greenfield Village by making this area the repository of the various endangered buildings in our community. Owners ar busually agreeable to donating such buildings as it saves them the cost of demolition.Each would be under private ownership. Not urban villagers, more like pioneers, The cost to the city would be buttons. Then the city could use the money saved by aborting the canal project to purchase the soon to be vacant Canderel building and build a row of reproduction 19thcentury commercial buidings to beautify our waterfront
I believe that the idea has merit and the concept is a good one. Most of the comments that I would have made have already been made by the posters above. I would like to see the same sort of enthusiasm exhibited by the mayor for re-vitalizing an already existing area- Walkerville, In any other city this would be a treasure waiting to be discovered.
Rather than improving on what areas we already have such as Walkerville and Downtown Eddie shoots for something that is in all practicality, out of reach.
This might be a bit besides the point, but was the architect who drew this up named Escher by any chance? How does the water come in from the river, flow down the canal, over what looks to be some small falls into yet another canal and then back out into the river again? Unless the river level drops 15 feet or so in the space of a thousand yards, (unless things have changed in the past couple of years) I don’t see how this would work.
Other than that, why does Windsor need a canal? Everything north of Riverside Dr was torn down to open up park space along a body of water, now they want to dig a ditch and put buildings up close to another body of water? Why not just build over part of Dieppe Park then?
A much cheaper method might be to simply build the marina outward from the main land without any dredging like they did around the highrises on the other side of the Detroit river. The developers could still build the three luxury highrises on Riverside Dr. and no one would have to worry about heritage buildings being leveled and it would only cost a fraction of the cost of a dredged marina and canals. The planned dredged area could simply be turned into a parking lot for vehicles that launch boats from the marina.
I have to chuckle about comments complaining about terraforming Earth. Give me a break. Humans have been changing the Earth as long as humans have lived here. I’m not moving off. I think this an interesting idea for an area of the city that pretty much no one visits now, except to park. Yes, there are a few nice homes in the area. I am sure the preservationists will pony up the money to buy and move them, just as they always do. In a nod to high tax paying residents, I would think they would want MORE high tax paying residents, not less. Bringing in more poor people won’t lower your taxes. Windsor needs to boost its image as a retirement haven, since the auto industry is in its death throes, especially if the dollar stays high. There is no way that a marina will be built into the river at that location, it would be a hazard to navigation. Have you been in the river when a loaded freighter goes by? You would need a huge breakwater to protect it – more terraforming. The Coast Guard would never allow it. I think this is a better idea that an arena that is empty most of the time, except for Spits games and the odd boat show. It would probably freeze in the winter, too, so you could skate on it. It’s tough for Windsor to think big, that’s why it’s a small town. I doubt all those parking lots will be replaced by any revenue generating properties, based on Windsor’s lack of interest in becoming anything more than a used up factory town.
looks like bubi’s would be coming out
DJW – “a)trying to draw visitors to a riverwalk won’t work for eight months of the year. that’s why all the restaurants in the old Norwich block eventually failed. Tuesday nights in February will kill you. The plan makes perfect sense in Savannah Georgia or San Diego where the facilities can be enjoyed year round.”
What are you talking about?!!!! Windsor gets 1-2 months of cold weather and snow, in January and February. I dont see it snowing 8 months of the year???? This is not 1970’s Windsor, when it would start snowing in October. Also, even in the cold weather, areas like this can still be used. Ever heard of the Rideau Canal in Ottawa…..ya, they use that even in the winter….and I am pretty sure that Windsor does not get as cold or as much snow in February as Ottawa. And, in the winter, they have this festival called Winterlude, they dont just hibernate in their houses.
I have to give you credit, you did come up with a doozy of an excuse!
Saying Windsor only gets 1-2 months of cold weather and snow is a big doozy too. You are both guilty of exagerating, each in the opposite direction. Much as I’m leary of the Canal, I don’t buy the cold weather argument against it anyway. We’re Canadian. Enjoying winter is part of the package deal. And that hasn’t changed since the ’70s either.
Sorry…3 months. December, January and February is when we get actual snow and it gets really cold at night. But October and November have been pretty darn warm the past few years.
Sorry…3 months. December, January and February is when we get actual snow and it gets really cold at night. But October and November have been pretty darn warm the past few years. People are out on thier motorcycles till early December nowadays!
To JB. I’ll say it again. If you stand at the foot of this proposed marina, you see three highrises and a marina built outwards from the Detroit side of the river. How come the US Coast guard allowed them to build it? Mapquest 300 Riverfront Dr, Detroit, MI and click on aerial image http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Detroit&state=MI&address=300+Riverfront+Dr#a/mapsprint/l::300+Riverfront+Dr:Detroit:MI:48226-4516:US:42.324272:-83.05645:address:Wayne+County/m:hyb:13:42.324272:-83.05645:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e This marina looks like it has more wells than the proposed marina and doesn’t look like it would cost more than half a million to build on the Canadian side. The Detroit River isn’t that deep and I don’t see costly breakwater to break the water on the US side; it’s just a cheap pontoon perimeter surrounding the marina.
I think that this is a great concept and costs can largely be covered by the increased value of land sold to developers. The city already owns most of the land, so they would generate the sale proceeds to cover the cost of the marina/canal. I love heritage buildings and believe in trying to save every one. However, the reality is that downtowns are dynamic places and higher density rules. Older residential houses in general will not last there, they need to be moved (my preference) or demolished. In most cities, the land in the downtown has been rebuilt several times. Most of Windsor’s noteable buildings (icluding heritage ones) in the downtown replaced old farmhouses and log cabins. In Calgary and Toronto, they tear down 20 storey buildings to build higher. Those 20 storey buildings once replaced 2 and 3 storey commercial buildings that replaced houses before them. Also, the notion of lack of demand for housing is ridiculous. Do not judge the future by 2008. Windsor has seen thousands and thousands of cookie cutter raised ranches built on prime farmland in the past 15 years. We need to focus future development (and it will come) on urban redevelopment and density increase. This is something that could truly transform the image that others have of our city and that those who live here have of their city and themselves.
David is right. It makes better sense to have a bigger marina with a real breakwall set up at the foot of Caron, and inset a little towards riverside drive if the USCG has issues.
The marina on the detroit side is set back as well and doesn’t look like it iterferes with the freighter traffic
David, the Port Authority is against it that is one of the reason the marina was never built at the foot of Marentette. The insurance is much too high and the end result will be that once one act of vandalism happens they would chain off the entire area and thus block access to a public marina.
I like the marina part but that is about all.
MJD, the marina would use Detroit river water but the canal would use Municipal water and pumps would move it along so that it doesn’t stagnate.
ME, there isn’t a marina directly across the River on the Detroit side at Marenette, but there is one from Caron. So, it doesn’t mean the Port Authority would say the same thing here with the marina outwards from the Windsor mainland. And, if they do, the decision can always be appealed because a precedent exists for it with the marina directly across the river from it using that method. I don’t want to see $70+ million tax dollars wasted on this bondoogle when a much larger marina could be built along the river in the same area for a fraction of the cost.
This much cheaper method could also use that proposed dredging area for parking as I don’t see parking lots in the diagram above. Where the hell is everyone supposed to park for this $70 million marina proposal? And what happens to the lost parking spaces along Chatham St. that exist now. Also, isn’t the parking lot along Caron St. long-term leased/deaded to St. Clair College for parking? How do you break that lease?
As for insurance, insurance is the cost of doing business and if they’re doing it on the other side of the river then it must be realistically feasible to do it on this side, esp. since the US has more insurance claims and insurance premiums are typically higher in the US.
ME, wouldn’t the same ‘vandelism’ claim apply to the canal sketch marina?? There would need some sort to be security there in any case.
A marina at marentette wont fly because port authority and CAW don’t like it because of insurance and fensesetc…
A marina dug out at caron ave will fly? because why?
Don;t shoot the messenger, this is just what I have been told by both the Port Authority and the City of Windsor as to why the marina wasn’t built whre it was supposed to go. Personally I think a marina right on the river is a crappy idea because it will be a fact that once any vandalism occurs (and it will) they will fence it off. So much for continued parkland along wthe waterfront…
As for parking for St. Clair, they barely use it anyway and ther is a lot of parking that is not utilized downtown as it is. The mytho of no parking downtown is just that. A myth!
So its the Port Auth. and CAW that need to explain their flip flopping comments
Geesh.. already this all is sounding very suspect….
In order for a canal to benefit the downtown area it has to serve an economic purpose like the Welland canal. Otherwise it becomes another giant ditch that leads nowhere. We need more small-scale industry and locally owned and operated business in our core to create a healthy living environment, not another tourist attraction that only caters to people from out of town.