Here’s an interesting photo. It was taken September 24, 1970 shortly after the opening of the Ouellette Avenue Mall.
The info on the back indicates the musicians are:
Frank Ciccone
Angelo Russo
and the kid is Christopher Bennett – 2 yrs old
The photo is amazing, it’s neat to see a Windsor with the downtown streets packed. September 24th was a Thursday to boot.
What a difference actual stores make on the vibrancy of a downtown (and not a drop of stucco anywhere)!
Fascinating….lots of energy downtown in those days. A stark contrast to the “dead zone” of today. I certainly recognize the characters and all the various businesses of that era but I have absolutely no recollection of any mall around that time, even though I lived just a few blocks to the west and spent more than my share of time downtown. But the photo tells the tale. Was this mall a short-lived experiment? More info please.
What intersection is this? Looks almost like the west side of Ouellette and Elliot. The building across the street from Tamblyn looks like the Enwin Utilities office downtown.
That’s right in front of Banta Shoes, near the corner of Ouelette & University,(where the Starbucks is now}. I remember that “Downtown Mall” experiment when I was a little boy, although I thought it was in 1971. Does anyone else remember the free concerts that were held on Pitt St. beside the Post Office? I think it was around this same time period (early 70’s}
Robert is right other Andrew, it is Ouellette & University.
As for the date, the photo is stamped on the back with the date (Sep. 24 1970). It was late in the year, so maybe there was a soft opening with the “official” one in 1971?
I don’t know much behind the downtown mall story, other than it didn’t work
Hopefully there is a reader out there who can share the story…
Yep no stucco! But they had that awful pea-stone that was spread across the outer walls (like the Metropolitan building on University and the old Greyhound Bus station).
It sure would be nice to have that vibrancy downtown again. But fakeness of a mall is all the sheople can handle in this city.
By the way, in pic 2…”get a haircut hippy”.
It’s all relative. The mall experiment was to try and re-vitalize the core and bring it back to what we had in the 50s and sixties which was much more vibrant than you see in this photo. Ever since then the downtown has been in a state of perpetual flux. One experiment on top of another hoping that any one or combination of things will catch. There is barely a pulse now. Retail is definately needed but the primordial soup, the right things of life are not there. Sadly…This is too big for a group of downtown business’ to solve nor can it be their core concern. The municipal government has to take charge and they have to have the will to map out the future for Downtown’s health and prosperity. They and councils after them have to cultivate it like a garden starting with a realistic master plan. No matter how tuff. Sorry for the rant.
It is kind of a vicious circle. Stores need local customers. Residents need close-by stores. Same residents need close-by work places so mass transit or foot traffic is do-able. It doesn’t make sense for someone to move downtown only to drive to Lakeshore to shop. Or then drive to their job on Talbot road. If that’s the case then downtown is only synthetic. Maybe if Windsor can transition to a service economy where big industrial parcels aren’t needed, and those businesses move downtown instead of an office park off EC Row, then people will feel the need to live downtown, and other feeder businesses will follow. And some people like urban living, others do not, no matter what.
In the early-to-mid 70s Yonge Street also experiemented with a pedestrian only mall. It too didn’t work for a variety of reasons.
I heard more bars are coming downtown soon in the paper which makes me angry. We really need some sort of department store downtown to help draw a larger variety of people. Something that would appeal to many different people who live downtown. I know it would be a gamble and risk though since it would take a lot to open. It would need the help of a lot of people, including the city and government to try to get business back into downtown. We don’t need more bars! There’s a lot of people who live downtown and need a place to shop.
The same thing that killed downtown shopping in Windsor Happened in Detroit only sooner there.Suberban Malls Devonshire Free Parking galore.
The auto industry that helped to build the city, helped to depress it.Also the lack of national retailers, like Simpsons, Eatons, or Simpson-Sears or the Bay alsocontributed.
We have to forget about the car all together. I refuse to believe that a reasonably sized shopping centre downtown wouldn’t work because there’s nowhere free to park. We need to stop catering to motorists, and get on with our lives. The world doesn’t revolve around the automobile anymore.
Darren’s right, we don’t really need more bars, but we definitely do need more businesses. So what type of businesses would prosper downtown? What businesses have done well so far? Places like Milk, Phog, Coffee Exchange; these are all excellent examples of locally owned establishments with highly dedicated patrons. What’s their secret, I wonder?
Would high end clothing/shoe shops work (I’m thinking of Queen Street in Toronto)? Or should it be a bit more accessible, with toy stores, a grocery store, maybe a second hand shop or two, etc. (more like Bloor and Bathurst, in Toronto)? Or a mixed bag of all types? Anyways… it can’t ALL be bars. Just because they make lots of money, doesn’t mean they make a suitable, sustainable downtown. We need someone on council who will understand this, and will strive to make the necessary changes.
Nominations for councilors begin January 4th… there is a light at the end of this tunnel!
End rant (which was motivational in nature, of course).
i agree with most of the statements here..
i hear people tossing out ideas such as light rails lines, pedestrian malls, even the new mini downtown market etc. All the ideas have merit.. but nothing can replace the effect of a constant flow of residents living and working within the downtown core.. the unfortunate thing is without good retail, the people wont come, and without people, the retail wont come..
how do we jump start the process?
Windsor could not attract large retail chains in the past, after the Woolworths, Kresge,Zellers and Smiths left other chains probabley could not or would not open
because of Devonshire Mall.
Ottawa street has had its ups and downs but still manages to exist, remember it had three
chain grocery stores and a department store (Grays), and Teppermans. This are long gone
but still the street atracts shoppers. Is it the parking lots?
why can we no longer attract large retail into core areas..
my view.. its the lack of affluent residents in the core areas (downtown, ottawa, etc). as buildings aged their value dropped and attracted lower income residents. this drove most of the middle class out of the core and into the burbs (they could now for the first time because of the automobile and cheep credit after WWII)
at first people would drive into the core to do their shopping and goto work, eventually the retail and offices followed the residents out of the core.
but this will keep happening, as the “first ring suburbs” age the same thing will happen and people will move out even further.
why this trend has happened only recently? … the automobile, credit
thats just my theory…
About the dates: The city experimented with a pilot project, pedestrian mall the first year which looks like the 1970 sandbox picture above. There was a bigger and better equipped mall the following year.
Looking after the downtown was a big issue for the politicians of the time. Because part of the council was elected at large, City Council had three members who were downtown merchants. A couple of others worked in the downtown area. That’s half the votes on council.
The mall presented problems. The bulk of the traffic from the tunnel exited Park Street to Ouellette which became a traffic jam when the way north was blocked by the mall.
Merchants refused to give up street parking which would have added open lanes for the southbound traffic on Ouellette to exit the city.
The city’s transit design which threads almsot all the bus routes into the downtown hub added to the gridlock on Ouellette.
The east-west streets remained open which put distracted pedestrians at risk of being hit when walking through the mall.
I think the cycle will continue, like shane said, but instead of the first ring of suburbanites moving further out, I’m hoping the general shift in attitude towards the environment will result in more people moving back downtown.
I know this isn’t likely, but in a perfect world the people making the decisions will see the merit of sustainable, smaller communities full of mixed use buildings geared towards walkers and bikers, and make it happen. Poof! Just like that. LOL
i don’t think we should be looking for one big store to solve the woes of downtown. perhaps downtown needs put the focus on attracting independent, local retailers. someone mentioned queen street in toronto. the great thing about queen street (for me anyway) is that there are tons of independent retailers on that strip. now i know you can’t compare queen street with oulette but perhaps we be the “mallternative”..a phrase tecumseh has coined for their downtown. bring in indie shops, retail, grocers, galleries. make it truly unique. we can’t compete with the mall(s)..that’s quite obvious. and getting an anchor chain store to open up is proving next to impossible. so let’s look inwards. we’ve always looked for that one big thing that is going to save this city (casino, chrysler building, arena, canal) and it’s never worked. we need to stop looking for the golden ticket that’s going to save all our problems.
rant complete
I wholeheartedly agree! How do you think the city can attract more small businesses downtown?
Lower rent, for starters… I wonder how that could be possible?
i’m not sure what the solution is but i know that working together as a collective is a good start. part of the hindrance for downtown and the city in general is this idea that looking out for yourself is best. it’s a weird phenomena in this city where we are afraid, as business owners, etc to work together and help each other out. we are afraid to sing our own praises and of those that are doing some really great things in this city. there are tons of people in the downtown area, small business owners, residents and advocates that should be brought together to work on how to push downtown forward. put aside politics and pettiness and let’s get this thing moving! those that don’t live downtown and often wonder why a downtown is even important to them, need to rethink that notion. a downtown in any city is a representation of the city as a whole. when you visit another city, i’m pretty sure you dont’ head to the suburbs to get a feel for what that city has to offer. if we can fix our downtown, perhaps the rest of the city will follow suit.
There was a pedestrian mall on Ouellette Avenue back in the 70’s? What happened to it because I remember the city closed off Ouellette between Riverside Drive and Park Street to cars back in the early 80’s and the downtown merchants went nuts.
“when you visit another city, i’m pretty sure you dont’ head to the suburbs to get a feel for what that city has to offer”
ditto
Gosh, a nostalgic visit to Windsor for me seems more and more remote after reading this wonderfully-put-together blog (Windsor was my domicile in the ’50s and ’60s).
But, wait a sec: what if a tall (dare I say it) CONDO was built downtown? With good prices, decent mortgage rates, it would attract people, who would demand retail (even if it was in their condo building street level) — people bring money, people demand retail, people spend money! There would be lots of spin-offs for merchants, peripheral businesses, etc. This retail demand of condo owners would eliminate driving out to the burbs to shop, wouldn’t it?
Thoughts on the above?
unfortunately there is already plenty condo space available and vacent downtown, and the mortgage rates are pretty reasonable too, i think we have the room for people, what we need is the retail to draw the people, i think we would be better off with something like sears, or macy’s opening up a store downtown. i think it would be a magnet to attract other stores. if people saw that there was a good reason to go downtown for shopping…. it would also start to attract residents again.
what if one of the parking garages or blocks that is mostly parking were demolished for a large department store with some small retail on the ground floor
why demolish anything? we have a “giant” office tower downtown sitting empty. who says it MUST be offices? why can’t you put multi-level shopping in there? if you could get let’s just say Sears for example, to occupy 2 or more floors, you’re pretty much garunteed more will follow. and for those that can’t really afford the space in the tower, well they’re going to start moving into the empty stores because NOW it will be a worthwhile shot to open up downtown with people flocking to the tower……which can supply parking for itself leaving other spots around the core open. on alot of our under used parking lots, you build street level buisness and living above, parking for those stores and a sperate for residents can go under the building itself.
even the ground floor of the tower’s garage is empty. why not divide it up into stores while we’re at it? those themselves would be two stories. you could make your buisness two floors, or lease/sell the second floor to another buisness. the highest of availiable stores can either go to high paying condo owners or again, retail.
we’ve all got such great ideas (maybe not mine, but still) why don’t city councilers read this site to get an idea of what the people want? i would. there are sites like that for video games for crying out loud. on the whole it’s just a forum about the game itself but people bitch and complain about issues with the game, or something they would have liked featured in the game. the designers and software guys read those things and then try and taylor the next game to suit those peoples needs (the FANS, the ones who SPEND money)
rant #3 complete
why demolish anything? we have a “giant” office tower downtown sitting empty. who says it MUST be offices? why can’t you put multi-level shopping in there? if you could get let’s just say Sears for example, to occupy 2 or more floors, you’re pretty much garunteed more will follow. and for those that can’t really afford the space in the tower, well they’re going to start moving into the empty stores because NOW it will be a worthwhile shot to open up downtown with people flocking to the tower……which can supply parking for itself leaving other spots around the core open. on alot of our under used parking lots, you build street level buisness and living above, parking for those stores and a sperate for residents can go under the building itself.
even the ground floor of the tower’s garage is empty. why not divide it up into stores while we’re at it? those themselves would be two stories. you could make your buisness two floors, or lease/sell the second floor to another buisness. the highest of availiable floors can either go to high paying condo owners or again, retail.
we’ve all got such great ideas (maybe not mine, but still) why don’t city councilers read this site to get an idea of what the people want? i would. there are sites like that for video games for crying out loud. on the whole it’s just a forum about the game itself but people bitch and complain about issues with the game, or something they would have liked featured in the game. the designers and software guys read those things and then try and taylor the next game to suit those peoples needs (the FANS, the ones who SPEND money)
rant #3 complete
p.s. – i had no idea i could edit my comments!
Aaron i lived in Toronto for 3years in the hye park area itther is a main drag that runs north/south called rocesvilles it’s basically a traditional Polish are of toronto it has tons of small shops ..ie a library, a few polish deli’s but one thing that i found very handy was that Sobeys had an express grocery outlet everything the bigger stores had and it workd well i don’t know why the city isn’t going after some of these grocery chains to do something like that in the core i know we have food basic’s on Goyeau but it’s a dive very dirty
i agree with gary
How great to see this photo! One of my cousins put me onto this website. My dad is the guitarist in the photo. They played their strolling music for many years all around town. While these three musicians are long gone, their legacy lives on.My cousins in Windsor are keeping the strolling music tradition alive . Thanks for a wonderful trip down memory lane.