An FYI for tonight for anyone who’s interested in checking out the inside of the Armouries. The Windsor Symphony is holding an open house to pitch their reuse idea.
The now vacant Armouries are a designated building.
Built in 1900 it was designed by David Ewart, Chief Dominion Architect (from 1896 to 1914) of the department of public works for the Dominion of Canada. Ewart designed many government buildings across Canada. Ewart also designed the Sandwich Post Office as well.
It is an impressive space, and worth a visit if you have never seen the inside.
I’m not sure what to make of their plan, but I would rather see this kind of adaptive reuse that to let it sit empty.
This quote from Councilor Percy Hatfield sums up everything that is wrong with our current city council:
Ward 5 Coun. Percy Hatfield thinks it’s a “fabulous idea,” but not at a cost to city taxpayers.
“I’m sure the study will confirm it will be a wonderful concert hall,” he said. “But it will probably cost $50 or $60 million to convert. I don’t think there is an appetite from Windsor taxpayers to pay for a concert hall…. I can’t support throwing tens of millions of dollars into a concert hall.”
Yeah, but they can all get behind throwing $64 million of our tax dollars into an arena in a field behind a 40 year old auto parts factory on the fringe of the city. I for one would love to see that kind of investment made downtown, where the arena should be being built.
This is definitely a city without a vision and this is the same Percy Hatfield who suggested Windsor could become another Flint, Michigan by cutting the parks budget and not having enough funding to keep the city beautiful. This is also a city that is willing to waste millions on countless studies and feasability options and then do nothing. Who says the citizens of this city only want a hocky arena and not a first class venue for the Windsor Symphony?
$50-60 million seems ridiculously high for an adaptive re-use for a building that looks like it’s in great shape. How the heck do they justify that kind of spending?! The symphony could just buy the Walkerville Theatre for half a million and use it as a concert hall for chissake. The Walkerville Theatre is already accoustically setup for it and all they need to buy are new seats for the main floor. Just turning the armouries into a war museum or displaying the historical archives from the current historical museum and having it staffed by volunteers with a box for donations wouldn’t cost the taxpayers anything. Do the politician’s friends pocket $59.5 million and really only spend $500,000 on it’s renovations. Do they know how to count? How many square feet is this building in comparison to the new overpriced arena? It’s outrageous for the taxpayers to spend that kind of money! The nerve of the symphony to even ask the taxpayers for such an amount..
Andrew, lets not forget that this arena when all is said and done (land transfer, new road built to the arena…) this arena is going to cost closer to $85 million+. But hey! The Spitfires are worth it don’t you think?
I really like this proposal for the downtown and for Windsor. I had the luxury of hearing the Symphony on the 20/20 program on CBC. Here’s the link (Thanks to ScaleDownWindsor for providing it).
http://www.cbc.ca/windsor/features/2020/av.html
Scroll down to Nov. 1. I mean the acoustics are absolutely astounding even on my computer speakers. But I guess Fulvio (full of it is what he should be called) thinks spending over $150,000 on Detroit venues are more important (and also cutting down on the number of Christmas dispalys because of the cuts to the Parks & Recs budget…how are we goign to pay for the Greenlink maintenance again?) than spending some money are bringing WORLD CLASS attractions to Windsor.
Didn’t Eddie say THINK BIG? Well with a lot fo Federal and Provincial money floating around I am sure this could be done. But then I think about The Capitol Theater and what this city has doen with it and I am bgrought back down to reality. I forgot I was living in Windsor. The city that CAN’T do anything for it’s citizens but has a CAN DO BUT WON’T mentality.
David, you are forgetting that there is no parking in that area. I like the idea of transforming the Walkeville theater as well But the Symphony is trying to make downtown a cultural centre and add to what is a decrepit part of the city.
I have advocated using the Armouries for the Chimczuk (sp?) money left to Widnsor so that it could encompass all of our museum needs (automotive, local history, military, ethnic…) but again this city has a difficult time focusing on any issue let alone one. I think that maybe they have a severe case of ADHD due to the jumping from one crisis to another.
As a coach said to me long ago, keep your eye on the ball. In this city just posting that logic is enough to be denounced as the “enemy”.
There’s probably more empty parking spots available around the Walkerville Theatre on a Friday/Saturday night than downtown, which turns into nightclub central. When the convention centre opens up at the casino, parking will be a nightmare. Even during the day, there’s not a lot of parking in downtown as the St. Claire students seemed to have filled up the remaining spots. I was in downtown at 9:30am on a Tuesday a couple weeks ago and I couldn’t find parking in the 7 storey Goyeau/Chatham city garage. I found finally found a parking spot seven blocks away. Whether you believe it or not, parking is a problem in downtown.
David, could you’ve taken the bus?
Ah, more of the non-existent parking problem in Windsor.
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This would be a great adaptive reuse for sure. I could imagine other concerts being played there — small indie rock bands, etc. Maybe the neat architecture and downtown location could appeal to the US market as well.
The thing about Hatfield — there was a wonderful study/report last year about Canadian habits (which I cannot find online at the moment) that pointed to the ratio between the attendance at cultural events vs sporting events, with the vastly higher amount being on the cultural side (that is, any kind of cultural event). So, potential for spinning off into other areas is greater when cultural facilities are supported rather than sports. Not that sports should be cut or are in anyway the “enemy” — but it always seems politically easier for a politician like Hatfield to not show leadership and go with the general thinking and be cool with arena funding and not cultural.
David, the Walkerville was at one time the home of the WSO, however, the building is far too small. The Walkerville seats 579, The Cleary give or take a few, almost 1200. The proposed Armouries plans call for 1500 seats…
The plan for reuse is being partly based on Portland Oregon:
http://www.viamagazine.com/top_stories/articles/armory_reborn06.asp
http://www.voicesofthearmory.com/
It’s also a LEED showpiece:
http://www.portlandfunds.com/news/Armory%20Goes%20Green_Oregon%20Natural%20Step%20Network_14Apr05.pdf
The neglect of the Windsor Armouries is just another example of bad leadership at City Hall and a good reason why we’ve become a national joke. Why the hell do we have to live in a city where the unelected heads of City Departments have more power than the elected members of City Council or The Mayor. You can bet dollars to donuts that if the head of Parks and Rec or Public Works wanted to turn the Armouries into a world-class concert hall, it would happen without delay. How much did the city spend building that ugly restaurant and in Dieppe Park just so the bigwigs at City Hall could have someplace to eat lunch?
george, approx. $2.1 million. How much for the arena? How much for the new 400 City Hall building? How much money has the 1% tax levy on property (instituted since 2002) that was supposed to go to infrastructure has been used for said use? Zero! They used it to build the building on MacDougal and also for teh 400 City Hall building. What about those watermain levys?
Don’t kid yourselves. This city is awash in money. We get cheques for the casino slots, money from Roseland Golf Course, the marina, plus we have Enwin. So for those who think we don’t have the money, we do. We just don’t spend it where it is supposed to be spent. We like to spend this on grandiose schemes, and legacy buildings. Maybe one day the city will actually spend money the citizens instead of themselves.
(By the way, the arena doesn’t count because it was done to spite the Town of Tecumseh and reward the new buddies of Eddie, Warren Rychel and friends).
If the city is awash in money, they should lower the property taxes, which is the highest in Ontario, instead of wasting taxpayer money frivolously like there’s no tomorrow. Today’s front page in the Windsor Star said we’re in last place in all of Canada as for future economic outlook. A lot of it has to do with our high property taxes and leadership consistently voting for overpriced projects like this.
Also, I went to the open house today. There’s no way the arena could fit 1,500 seats. They had the windsor symphony stage in the back and the seats going up to the middle of the hall, where the garage door off the alley used to be. I counted 10 rows with 10 chairs on each side. That’s two hundred chairs. If you fill the other half with chairs, that’s another two hundred. You might be able to squeeze another 200 chairs as long as the fire marshall doesn’t scream about safety. So, maximum capacity looks to be around 600 seats. That’s as much as the Walkerville Theatre. But, it’s still smaller than there current location of 1,200 in the Chrysler building. I didn’t really notice a sound difference. And, how much of the current 1,200 seats does the symphony normally fill? Spending $60 million to move the WSO to the armouries is huge boondoogle to the taxpayers. The armouries should be a war museum or Windsor archive museum instead.
I too think 40 or 50 million is a bit out of line for a reno. You could probably build a nice new facility with a contribution of 50 million but rest assured if there is a way to screw up the Armouries as a usable facility get the Council involved.
Incidentally, it was interesting to hear Dan Stamper on the news reassuring us that they are going to build another span, while the Feds, the Province and the City continue to procrastinate.
Vp – build a new facility?? The whole point of reusing the armouries is sustainability and reuse. Infill. Not to mention bringing a huge part of Windsor’s history back to glory. Making it a top notch attraction instead of being vacant.
While the price may seem large, the benefits it could have to the entire city are unthinkable. To have people think of Windsor as something other than a lunch bucket town is huge for attracting investment. A world-class venue in a derelict part of the core can spur growth and investment in the immediate area.
The federal and provincial governments have many heritage and cultural grants that can be accessed. Hopefully the WSO puts up a large sum of cash as well as starts a donation campaign to raise funds. The DWBIA always seems eager to provide at least some sort of cash investment when it comes to luring major tenants downtown.
All of these, and I’m sure I am missing some, could significantly reduce the cost. This is also something for our administration to show leadership on and encourage our neighbours in LaSalle, Tecumseh, Essex, even Amherstburg and Leamington, that an investment in a project such as this can reap benefits for the entire region in attracting workers and families lured in by a higher quality of life in the area. Those towns can use the enticement of living a quiet rural life while being only a half hour drive to world-class Canadian facilities. No need to cross the border. No need to exchange money. Spending money locally.
I’ve got a better idea. If council can’t get their act together and turn it into a war museum, they should make sure the facade is properly designated as heritage and sell it to the highest bidder like London Ontario did with theirs. This council can learn a lot from the way London runs their city like how to count!!
David, I’m not so sure about that idea… I would almost rather have it sit empty than to have a highrise punched through the middle of it…
If you aren’t familiar with the London project, here’s a photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_55/87585209/
I thought the hotel/highrise was a good idea. Not sure what an empty building will bring but at least it would be inuse and not have the ability to be torn down regardless of designation. We all know that brass plaque can be mowd down with the rest of the building.
However, I think the Symphony is a great idea and if council and our mayor without a vision don’t think it is a good idea I say open it as the quinessential area museum.
That’s only one possible private sector use for It. It doesn’t mean that there will be a glass tower sticking out of the back of this one. Have you seen the inside restaurant that they turned the lobby into? They washed off all the paint inside to reveal the beautiful interior brickwork, highlighted with halogen lighting. I’ve never seen a finer interior, while maintaining the beauty of the exterior. http://www.expedia.ca/pub/agent.dll?qscr=dspv&flag=l&itid=&itdx=&itty=&from=f&foop=0&hwrq=&htid=27978&spsh=&spsi=&crti=4&nfla=1&&zz=1194567636458&&
But, that’s besides the point. The city simply can’t afford to keep it, let alone fund it’s conversion into new concert hall when it already has one in the Chrysler Theatre. In fact, the city should sell at least half of it’s properties including the armouries and all the public housing highrises it owns. We no longer have the tax base to support this level of public municipal ownership anymoe. We have the highest property tax percentages in Ontario. I noticed in the legal notices section of monday’s Windsor Star that our good ol’ friend Stephen Funtig of the Capitol is handling Walkerville Breweries’ bankruptcy. Another entrepreneur trying to put a historical building to good use being wiped out trying to pay our Draconian property taxes. The business’ here can’t handle the increasing tax burdens imposed by condo conversions of residential highrises and businesses leaving the city. The only way to make our property taxes competitive with other Ontario cities is to start selling off money losing city owned properties to the highest bidder. Only then will you see this city get back on track and flourish!
David, for the record the city no longer owns the Cleary.
Also, where is the notice you talked about? I can’t see it in Monday’s paper/
It was in the classified section under Legal Notices on the first page of classifieds I believe. I think D1, but not exactly sure. It was either Saturday or Monday. I could get the exact page number if I didn’t already throw it away in blue box Tuesday night.
Here it is Andrew:
http://shopping.windsorstar.canada.com/Class/ClassifiedAds.aspx?scid=1322&said=061509
THE BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY ACT NOTICE OF FIRST MEETING IN LOCAL NEWSPAPER (Section 102 (4)) IN THE MATTER OF THE BANKRUPTCY OF 1223240 ONTARIO LIMITED A COMPANY DULY INCORPORATED UNDER THE LAWS OF THE PROVINCE OF ONTARIO, HAVING ITS HEAD OFFICE IN THE CITY OF WINDSOR, IN THE COUNTY OF ESSEX AND PROVINCE OF ONTARIO. Notice is hereby given that 1223240 Ontario Limited (o/a Walkerville Brewing Company), of the City of Windsor, made an assignment on the 3rd day of December, 2007, and the first meeting of creditors will be held on the 19th day of December, 2007 at 11:00 o’clock in the morning, at the office of S. Funtig & Associates Inc., in the City of Windsor, and Province of Ontario. DATED at Windsor, Ontario this 3rd day of December, 2007. S. FUNTIG & ASSOCIATES INC., TRUSTEE 484 Pelissier Street, Suite 200 Windsor, Ontario, N9A 4K9 Tel: (519) 252-8227 Fax: (519) 252-0855
David: Say it isn’t so! (Walkerville Brewery)
Thanks David. Funny how all the local news missed this one…
I noticed from the Walkerville Brewery website that it was run by Karen and Mike Plunkett. There’s a Karen and Mike Plunkett who run Plunkett’s Bar and Grill on Chatham St. in downtown. I wonder if the bar and grill is going to endure the same fate.
I doubt it. They are savvy enough business people that I’m certain both businesses are well insulated from each other.
plunkett’s bistro has been placed on the market…from what i recall with the entire building it is being sold for $950k
when i saw michael plunkett on cbc recently when asked if he would relocate the restaurant if the block was sold he laughed, or that’s what i seem to remember. so i guess their days are numbered. i always thought walkerville brewery was in his wifes name too. sad to see they are going through bankruptcy but doesn’t surprise me with the way this city is going. i used to really love eating at their restaurant.
I think that the city of windsor council is still stuck in their automotive past and needs to move forwards in this community. Because General motors is definitely not coming back here anytime soon. Secondly, I think that our city council needs a whole recasting for this and many other reasons relating to the future of the city of windsor. This city council has made serious mistakes out of stupidity and poor planning-One example would be the new WFCU arena. After soo much time and money that was put into planning, they decided to not even position the arena in downtown windsor, instead they put it in the far side of tecumseh, hidden from the public. The city spent $71 million on this project and they did not even hit their biggest objective for this project-to IMPROVE DOWNTOWN. Now the symphony steps forward with a well planned and researched idea that would not only benefit them, but also downtown (bring business), the city out of its stupidity reports they have no because oh they had to have a new arena, a new city hall, a new police building, etc. The truth of the matter is though is that this city has money, they just dont know how to spend it wisely at all. and why are we always getting bashed by percy hatfield on this matter!!!!!?? i think that this citys citizens should be allowed to vote on having a concert hall because I know from the many people I have talked to, that everyone would agree that we all want this concert hall. To the city council of WIndsor: Times are changing, we have to change with it in order for all of us to live in peace.
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