You know, it’s shit like this, and land owners like Ashok Sood (who FYI, owns Champion Products Corp) who don’t give a rat’s ass about Windsor or our history, who make this City and undesirable place to live. Assholes and incompetence is the reason there is a giant hole in the historic heart of Walker Road in old Walkerville.
The historic Seagrave Building on Walker Road (which was featured here and here), was built around 1905, and in this building the first motorized fire trucks in Canada were built.
The city fucked up once again. This building was listed on the Heritage Inventory, and as such it should by law be afforded a 60 day waiting period before a demolition permit is issued. Guess what? It wasn’t. Some moron at City Hall issued the permit without batting an eye.
The same thing happened in November 2006 with the Walker Farm Manager’s house.
Following the Walker Farm House fiasco, I raised a stink and I received this reply:
Please note that the Ontario Heritage Act has been amended so that
properties that are considered for heritage designation must give Council
60 days notice of the intention to designate. After intention is given,
Council must make a decision whether to designate the building or allow
demolition.
Here is the relevant portion of the Ontario Heritage Act – See Section
27(3) – for the 60 day delay part.
Restriction on demolition, etc. If property included in the register under subsection (1.2) has not been
designated under section 29, the owner of the property shall not demolish
or remove a building or structure on the property or permit the demolition
or removal of the building or structure unless the owner gives the council
of the municipality at least 60 days notice in writing of the owner’s
intention to demolish or remove the building or structure or to permit the
demolition or removal of the building or structure. 2006, c. 11, Sched. B,
s. 11 (2).*We have unfortunately issued a demolition permit without following this
procedure. In the future, please ensure that if a building is considered
for heritage designation, that (the heritage planner) be notified and, under no
circumstances, issue the permit unless Council approves the demolition.
…*
Good to see that the city can’t even follow it’s own policies.
I have honestly had it up to here with the City and their piss poor job of doing anything.
The Mayor of Monmouth summed it up better than I ever could in his excellent post here.
No advance warning at all. It was obviously done on the hush. There is one exception to this. Rick Gruber who is the area Building Inspector rushed out today to halt the demolition because even though there was a permit to raise the building, there was no permit to close Walker Road. In fact, the sidewalk is the only thing which separates the building from Walker Road. Witnesses said that a man riding a bike almost got clocked by falling bricks. Four thirty rolled around. Quittin time for city employees and Jones fired up the beast and started tearing the old girl down. Right in the middle of rush hour. One reason…They rented the rig from Amicone for a tight time window and the clock was ticking. Within two hours the building was really history. Ashok Sood who owns that property along with most of the 8 and 900 blocks of Walker Road stood on the opposite side of Walker to witness his planned demolition. He is planning to attract a “Big Box” operation on the East Side of Walker.
– Mayor of Monmouth
You know what? Fuck you, and fuck your big box. Enjoy your vacant lot, and rest assured that I will fight any attempt by you to redevelop your holdings for big box use.
Special thanks for the photo above to Chris Edwards, who went back after me and caught the demise on camera.
His series of photos can be found here: http://walkerville.com/seagraves/
This is unacceptable, and fucking pathetic. Whoever issued this permit in contravention of the Ontario Heritage Act should lose their fucking job.
I’ll keep everyone posted if I learn anything.
ac – That’s a good idea, but I don’t have any free time right now to get something like that set up.. 🙁
I sold Asuk some property on Walker road a decade ago. I owned the bldg that used to be Walker Finishing/Bomar. I tried to assemble the property around it but Asuk kept topping my offers. The most I could assemble was us both dividing up the adjacent Macdonald and White property that had the fire with the classic cars. This was next to the everfresh Juice property that became Champion. I eventually sold out to him
Asuk was after the same thing I was, 20 acres of developable site, that was 10 years ago when windsor’s challenges were not nearly as clear. With Hindsight about our economy, I’m glad I didn’t succeed as the land has still not been developed.
One of the problems is people like him (or even Concord) construction who buy bldgs with no money down and no plan to invest. They become squatters looking for investors in their dreams. Concord was lucky the province pulled through or grace would be a disgrace forever. If Mady would have got it for less, it would have probably been developed by now without provincial subsidies.
I think first off, you can’t sell gov’t owned property unless a plan for development with sources of financing as part of the bid package. In Asuk’s case, so far it sounds like the city really messed up on this one. Owners will always seek to maximize their Return on investment, you don’t blame someone for doing what is in their nature. Thats why we have regulation in the first place
im in for the vigil tonight! who else is in? spread the word and bring your friends. i’ll be at the scene of the crime at 8:30pm tonight, candles & signs & all.
SHAME ON MR. SOOD AND DOUBLE SHAME ON THE CITY!
I want some fracking heads on pikes in front of city hall!
I just got off the phone with Halberstadt and he is going to try and show up around 9:00ish. Scaledown’s PR expert is issuing a press release notifying the media that we will be holding the vigil at 9:00 tonight at the scene of the crime. I will also be calling the big 4 media outlets notifying them of the vigil.
WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE OUT TONIGHT TO SHOW THIS COUNCIL THAT THE RESIDENTS CARE ABOUT PRESERVING OUR BUILT HERITAGE!!!! I hear they’re not taking this seriously at all!!!!
Call your friends and family. I’m bringing my kids, so it will be child-friendly if you want to bring some in lieu of getting a babysitter. Let’s use this tragedy to shine some light on this cities problems.
Good luck – I wish I could be there, but I’ve got night school tonight. There is no way I can miss class today, as there is a test today.
i’m in! see you at 9pm
My wife and I will walk over for the vigil. Great idea! Make sure the media is there! Maybe Jim Crichton will say “but first- On Walker Road…”
Good luck tonight everyone that can make it, I hope it opens the eyes of some very blind people.
I usually get out of class about 9:00. I’ll swing by after I get out. It will be as long as it takes me to get to Walker Rd. from St. Clair. If you’re still there I’ll join the party.
James and I will swing by after the G.L.U.E. meeting. I’ll see if someone can announce it at tonights downtown residents meeting
Where the hell was Eddie the boyscout while this was happening? Is it my imagination, or has our mayor and council gone AWOL anytime an important issue like closing after-hours clubs downtown, curbing the spread of vandalism and rowdy behaviour or preventing the demolition of historic buildings crops up? The deliberate silence and willful neglect that characterized civic leadership in this city makes me ill. Chris Holt for mayor!
unbelievable. the building was becoming quite the eyesore, but you could still see its beauty. I was just down there the other day having dinner at Tony’s and was able to get a look up close…whatever items were left there was trashed (you could see a car bay maybe?, open in the back, first floor), but there was a new lock on the door at the top of the stairs to the second floor – a pitiful attempt to secure the place, broken windows/boarded up windows… I often thought the owner should be responsible for better up-keep. If i knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t have controlled my urge to tresspass…
i really don t know what the big deal is i think it s the old philosophey of don t ask for permission just ask forgiveness after it is done, i guess what i m getting is if you want to see a real eyesore go over to Indian road where all the house s are boarded up waiting for city council to make a decision of l wether or not these houses are historic or not you would think mr moron would tear them down just like this other guy and pay the consequences just a thought so don t be angry with me thanks
This is what the owner of champion said bout the seagrave building being knocked down from the windsor star(what a goof)
Bill Jean, manager of permits for the city, was not available for comment Thursday. But Ashok Sood, the building’s owner, said he was unaware that it was on the heritage inventory list.
He said the building had been vacant for more than year, and was for sale or rent with no takers.
“I wish I knew, because we would have pursued it that way. I would have worked with people,” Sood said. “It was too costly to renovate and I couldn’t find anybody to go in.” He owned the building for three years and plans to leave the property vacant for the time being.
He said he decided to tear it down because of vandalism and other problems. “I bought the building because I loved it, but I couldn’t find anybody to do anything, there was no grants available, there was nothing.”
Sood said he was told a few months ago by someone that the building had historical significance and gave the person his business card, but he was never contacted again.
“It was an eyesore, there was a lot of vandalism and it was looking pretty ugly
I cannot make it but I wish all of those who do good luck! The least I can do is spread the word, consider it done!
Mark I will see you and Chris tonight at GLUE. I want the Board of Directors expanded as at the last Scaledown presentatoins we were talking about getting an advocacy group together.
I will also stop by for the protest at 9:00 as well. The more people the better. Chris please try and make me a sign.
Newspaper story link
Obviously, Mr. Ashok is a friend of the mayor. Other friends of the mayor seem to enjoy their relationship when it comes to profiting from real estate transactions in the city ( i.e. the new arena lands and property assembled around the tunnel entrance that must be acquired by the city for a new plaza.)
When should private ownership take precedent over the image of a City. What image does Windsor want to have? Are we going to be the “land of big box” or should the citizens of a City have the right to contribute to what the City’s image is? Can anyone picture London tearing down the buildings on Richmond Rowe? Will we ever read about Toronto tearing down Bloor West Village? These investments and restorations take time. Why is Windsor so quick to tear these buildings down? I say to Mr. Sood – I hope you and your family like the WalMarts and other big box monsters because soon that will be all you have.
This City has problems deeper than the tearing down of this building. It is the mind set of those in charge that have no respect for or sense of community and the importance thereof. Unfortunately the City will make the appropriate statements to the press of how sorry they are, how they are going to do everything possible to ensure something like this does not happen again, slap Mr. Sood on the wrist and move along. Does the City think we are stupid enough not to realize that these things happen so quickly and quietly for a reason? Shame on them – and shame on Mr. Sood.
I will be attending the candlelight vigil tonight and hope to see enough people there to make a strong enough statement that will last more than just one night.
How did the protest go tonight? I wish I could have been there…
There were a few people out maybe 20. A bit cool. Fulvio and Alan H showed up along with the Star, CBC and A channel. Fulvio didn’t dodge any questions and as always was the consumate politican but very supportive of why we were there. Alan spoke to the media and as always was supportive. Big Tony supplied some pizza-THANKYOU- and quite a few cars and trucks honked their support. If it had been warmer more people would have been there. Good to see people mobilize so very quickly. Thank goodness for the International Metropolis website. Well done Andrew!
Thanks VP – But the credit for getting the vigil organized belongs to Chirs Holt and his team at Scaledown.ca
Every media outlet responded to the press release (Peter Langille from AM 800 showed up before everyone got there, VP) – awesome! Thank you to everyone who turned out, PC for bringing candles and chalk, as well as all of you who helped mobilize people for this 11th hour response. Watch for how the city responds to this one!
You guys rock!
Thanks Chris!
I wish we could have done more…
GREAT WORK GUYS….I WAS THRILLED TO SEE SOME MEDIA COVERAGE…WISH I COULD HAVE BEEN THERE ALSO!!
THANKS CHRIS FOR PUTTING ALL THAT TOGETHER IN SUCH A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME!
😉
“Ashok Sood who owns that property along with most of the 8 and 900 blocks of Walker Road stood on the opposite side of Walker to witness his planned demolition. He is planning to attract a “Big Box†operation on the East Side of Walker.”
Sood might have dreams of attracting a Big Box development to his property but does he know that the future tenant might be boycotted by the local residents and getting the right streetscape planning from the Walkerville BIA might prove a really troublesome time.
Lets plan now to give him a very hard time for his future development and make any future tenant aware that they are walking into a minefield of public scorn!
Unfortunately, Urbanrat, the WalkervilleBIA boundaries end at Argyle road and do not include any of Walker or Wyandotte east of Argyle. Streetscaping plans would not encompass or even border any property Mr. Sood owns.
This one will need to be left to the residents. Please form a Walkerville Residents’ Committee, similar to the new downtown group. It is essential in promoting active communication between the area and the city.
Mr. Sood it either lazy or stupid. Since he seems to be good at business I would say the former. He didn’t know it was on the heritage list? He said he didn’t know there were grants. One call to City Hall could have clarified that immediately and he wouldhave found out that there were grants.
What strikes me as odd is that he stated no one was interested. No shit sherlock! We are only in a recession in the city. What difference would it have been if he left the building vacant or tore it down? He still has vacant property!
Eddie’s family (cousins et al) and friends always get special treatment. His cousin who owns Overseas Motors (Rafi?) and his cohorts can’t wait until Windsor buys the other half of the tunnel. When it shows that it isn’t making money for the city (and it won’t after the third corssing takes approx. another 25% of business away from the tunnel) he will want it sold to “make money” for Windsor. Guess who buys it?
The same I believe will happen with Canderal.
I’m sure he knew it was on the inventory, ME.
Playing “dumb” is part of the ruse.
The owner claims he didn’t know it was on the inventory, that there were “no grants”.
The city employee who approved the permit “forgot” to comply with the 60 day wait.
The demo itself was rushed and completed in under one day with no regard to planning/safety.
Nothing is adding up here, except a lot of suspicion.
Stephen brought up a great point. Why are some business owners given preferential treatment at City Hall while others pay taxes only to have the city ruthlessly force them out of business? Why were the businesses on the Norwich Block treated like vermin by the pointy heads at city hall while others are treated with kid gloves? We need an independent investigation of our municipal government by a provincial auditor. Kwame Kilpatrick found out the hard way that no public official is above the law and it’s high time Eddie Francis learned that too.
Good ole’ Windsor.
If none of you lazy complainers planned on making an effort (either personally or through the government) to make this shitty building better, or none of you have a keen history in glorious (cough) Windsor or perhaps a familial interest in the history of the Fire Department, then you should all shut the fuck up and be happy that this ugly, vandalized ‘landmark’ is going to be replaced by something that might possibly help improve the crap economy that is Windsor. Detroit is already going down the drain, and Windsor is next, so you might as well pack up and move if you’re going to waste hours online and at ‘vigils’, when you could be working hard in an attempt to revitalize the Windsor that counts and that is important for future generations. I am a big fan of history, but the only thing that warranted preserving this landmark would be a Fire Truck museum or something, although I doubt anyone would ever have put the time and dedication into fostering such a project. Maybe you should have.
JB, at least half the people who have commented on this topic have strong resumes in local activism and community involvement. I’m not sure what yours is like, but I wouldn’t call this group a bunch of “lazy complainers” after knowing how much so many have done to forward the cause the local history and awareness.
JB if you think this building is soo shitty you should check out the old canadian motor lamp factory across the street from hearns on seminole now that is a building that is a eyesore and needs to be knocked down.The seagraves building was in much better shape then that piece of crap
http://internationalmetropolis.com/?p=104
(Canadian Motor Lamp Factory)
John, I apologize for the presumed assumption. Perhaps anger at other posters’ use of unnecessary language provoked it, but I’m sure that you all do care about the community. All I am trying to say it, in today’s world, although history is vitally important, we must remember that money is required to keep things operational, and money will only be put into things that have to potential to give it back, or at the very least, not waste it. Thus, if people wanted to preserve this building, and I do think that it had a legitimate reason (1st fire truck), then something should have been done about it earlier. It seems as though its demolition should be used as a wake up call to make progress on the historical buildings that still remain, as in you activists should get together and BUY these places and I’m sure the government would help you if you approached them with reasonable historically-oriented ideas. There is no need to be so upset over the loss of this building because clearly no one cared about it until it was gone. And finally, everything has a beginning and an end; we humans have the unfortunate power of choosing when that end is; sadly we lack the wisdom in exercising that power. Cheers
I was reading in the paper that Assco-ck was trying to sell or lease it for the past year.. Does anyone know how much he listed it for? Was he demanding above market rates and just carpet bagging? How much more was he asking for than he bought it for? Twice or three times the amount? It would help clarify this whole economic use issue. If he was trying to sell the building at cost (what he paid for it) or lease it at market rates, then I might give JBs economic use argument a little weight. But,if he intentionally let it get run down and was asking over and above market rates, then Assco-ck deserves to be reprimanded. From Mark’s comments, it makes me believe that’s what happened. And, why did the other two businesses in there go under? Was the rent too high and above market? Did they move to a cheaper building? Unless someone can show me data which proves otherwise, Assco-ck sounds like a rotten stinkin’ carpet bagger
JB, understood, I agree with most of what you are saying but please take into consideration that is part of the reasoning behind the 60 day grace period – so an inventoried building’s heritage status/value can be properly assessed. With possible heritage designation, building owners have access to grants and special incentives subsidized by ratepayers – you and me – to put toward fixing their properties up and making ownership of a heritage property more rewarding. And yes some of the rhetoric in this discussion is pretty heated but most of us have been on a slow boil or years, essentially starting with the loss of the Norwich block. The slow boil ramped up when 801/819 Ouellette was razed. Now this. So no one is in a terribly good mood right now.
JB – No one forced the owner to buy a vacant building. and not do anything with it either.
There is a respoinsiblity to the community and rsidents that comes from owning property, it doesn’t exist soley for slumlords to play games with.
History is very important, and the majority of the people with the power (finacially and/or politically) in this city don’t care. More than the loss of the building, it’s the fact that the city failed to follow thier own policies on this demolition that irks many. The permit was illegally issued, and the fact that there will likely be no repercussions, is what is so frustrating. If I did something as incompetent in my job, I would lose it.
JB – If you’re sure of that, I’d tell you that you’re surely wrong.
What I can’t understand is why Mr. Sood originally purchased the Seagrave building because he “loved it” but didn’t have any money to renovate it and yet still expected prospective tenants to line up and move right in; which to me makes absolutely no business sense. He must have expected to sink “some” money into it and it’s not like Champion Paper and Polybag is going bankrupt any time soon. Furthermore, Mr Sood knows his properties that he owns on Walker Rd are a)designated as heritage buildings and b) his properties border a neighborhood in Windsor that is nothing but heritage buildings and yet it never dawned on him that this building, with its history of which he was aware, might have a heritage designation in its future for which monies are, in fact, available for renovation?
Halberstadt comments on his blog about this
http://www.alanhalberstadt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9957&Itemid=87
What i dont unserstand is all this anger towards the owner who aparently followed the rules by applying for a permit (which was approved) to tear down the building. From what I can see is he is looking to develop a run down part of the block and honestly why are people critisizing a person who is willing to invest in our city when so many people are running away from investing here. Any development in the area can only help with the creation of jobs and eventual economic development in an area that from what i can see needs some help. Yes perserving history is important to the city but honestly there was no talk on this site about this building or its importance to the city before hand so lets put our anger towards the right people..those in the local government who made the error and not the person who seems to be willing to invest in our city during some of its hardest times.
“Yes perserving history is important to the city but honestly there was no talk on this site about this building or its importance to the city before hand”
Au Contraire. This building has been featured on this site not once but twice in the past.
http://internationalmetropolis.com/?p=103
http://internationalmetropolis.com/?p=427
Additionally, rules were not followed. The site was not secured. And I don’t see any indication there will be any ‘investment’ made on this land either.
I forgot to mention the historical significance of this building has also been covered extensively by the folks at Walkerville Times. You can visit their website and enter “Seagrave” on the internal site search and find out that this building’s importance is not something that came about just recently because it is a pile of bricks. We’ve all been tuned in on that for a long time.
CT – The ower is not looking to develop the block. In the Newspaper story on Friday
Remember that quote 10 years from now when it’s still a vacant lot.
What has most people upset is not the actural demolition, but how it happened. There are rules in place the city is aware that prevents hasty demolition of a heritage building. If all the rules had been followed, then nobody on this site would have a leg to stand on. But the city didn’t follow them, and they allowed this to happen.
JB we do so much for no recognition and no pay. We can’t buy all of the buildings that are heritage in this city. So we try to make people aware of what they have with no cost to them.
Do you not agree that a property owner has a moral right to keep their properties in the best shape as well as secure for the community that they are in; In this case a heirtage community? Do you not agree that land owners don’t just buy a property and instead usually sink some money into them? Has Mr. Sood done any of the above?
CT lets be honest why would possible go on the propertyy where seagraves was?a tim hortons maybe?It will probably remain a vacant lot and wont bring jobs here like you think it would
paul – Maybe CT is the moron at City Hall who actually issued the permit? Maybe he’s down here trying to save his neck 🙂