On Friday over at Scaledown.ca, I got into a debate with someone about the state of downtown. Many others also argued with him, all with the same lack of success or resolution.
On Sunday (yesterday), I decided to head out and do a full walk around the area used as a playground/toilet weekly by the bar crowd, along with an associate. I wanted to see if it was as lousy as I was claiming. I looked around, and I couldn’t find my “rose coloured” filter for my camera lens, so these photos might be what the mayor and other blind cheerleaders might consider “negative”.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
The Building that housed “Ye Olde Steakhouse” is for sale. The 1st floor that housed the restaurant is vacant.
Looking right…
…and left. Nothing there.
* Photo from the collection of the Municipal Archives
This is what used to be there, only a decade ago, this block was a viable commercial strip with high occupancy.
Wolley Bulleys. Vacant and for lease.
“So let’s put a mural in the parking lot of what used to be here before this was a parking lot”. I hate to say it, but I think the core area has about reached the mural saturation point.
Vacancy door #1…
Vacancy door #2…
Or vacancy door #3?
The broken sign on this still operating business is shameful, and helps with the overall crappy look of downtown.
* Photo from the collection of the Municipal Archives
Here’s how the block looked above in the 1970’s.
Convenience store, vacant coffee shop, and a rub n’ tug. Great “amenities” on this block.
Just the results of a little harmless vandalism following a weekend of use as a playground/toilet, for those that don’t live downtown.
More to come…
Wow, is KING EDDIE blind? The core is falling apart more, and more with each passing day!
I really wonder how many other business’s are going to bail, before something drastic is done, I mean what will it take?
If I was KING EDDIE, I’d sure as hell be ashamed to be called the City’s Mayor, and to be responsible for allowing our downtown to dwindle away to it’s current state.
I don’t know if any of you were able to review this BLOG written by Alan Halberstadt, but it sure points out KING EDDIE’s lack of concern. In my opinion we have to start at the top, and that would be the Mayor. This was copied from Alan’s Blog on his site. Thought it might be interesting as we are discussing the downtown demise.
Mayoral Flip Flog
Written by Alan Halberstadt
Tuesday, 05 February 2008
My confidence in Mayor Eddie Francis was shaken like never before last night when it became obvious that he worked feverishly behind the scenes to derail a bylaw to impose a 3 a.m. closing time on downtown bars.
Just a month ago, Mayor Francis indicated to me in his office that he supported my motion to draw up a bylaw to impose the 3 a.m. closing time on entertainment lounges. He didn’t like the idea that an exemption policy to the 3 a.m. closings be developed and executed by a Hospitality Resource Panel (HRP) involving the Windsor Downtown Business Improvement Association (DWBIA).
In deference to his wishes, I changed the second part of the notice of motion, giving the responsibility for exemptions to the city’s Licensing Commision rather than the HRP. Both parts of the motion were approved by Council on January 14th
Last night, when the 3 a.m. bylaw came back for final approval, Council reversed the decision in typical can’t get’er done fashion. Mayor Francis (who doubles as chair of the Police Services Board) had the retiring police chief and his two top deputies show up flashing their brass. Glenn Stannard (in my view, an excellent chief who is having trouble letting go) was lobbed predictable beachball questions by Councillors who opposed the bylaw three weeks earlier
Chief Stannard said the 3 a.m. closing would likely spread the problem of after hours violence elsewhere, noting that strip clubs (excluded from the bylaw) have already started opening their doors to the after-hours bar crowd.
It has become obvious to me that the police want to see the drunken, violent behaviour concentrated in one place because it makes their job easier. Unfortunately, it has created a ready-made battleground for drug users and gun-toters and it is destroying the reputation of downtown. Windsor Police Services and the mayor are acting very selfishly in this instance.
Mayor Francis again donned his lawyer’s hat last night, to reverse his original position and denounce the bylaw. He preached that he feared a threatened lawsuit from the owners of the bad boy After Hours Club, the Box Office. He based his argument on the premise that, by exempting the strip clubs, the city was discriminating against bars.
Funny, when we met in his office in early January, Mayor Francis expressed no concern to me with the exemption of the strip clubs.
Your pictures kind of remind me of the new book out “The World Without Us!” Maybe downtown Windsor can be one of the sets when the book is turned into a movie!
Just so you know the other side of the story, the rose colored lense can be viewed on the video at the lower left side of http://www.downtownwindsor.ca
My argument wasn’t that downtown windsor was the best Windsor has to offer, it wasn’t that it was perfect, only that the rest of windsor has even less to offer.
As downtown rises and falls, so does the city of Windsor
Just so you know the other side of the story, the rose colored lense can be viewed on the video at the lower left side of http://www.downtownwindsor.ca
My argument wasn’t that downtown windsor was the best Windsor has to offer, it wasn’t that it was perfect, only that the rest of windsor has even less to offer.
As downtown rises and falls, so does the city of Windsor
Sweet a slick marketng video for a fake-ass brand.
Giving an area catchy name, and producing a slick video doesn’t do much for me… As someone who lives down here no amount of slick marketing and spin can can make up for what the area doens’t have.
I find it offensive that a lot of money was obviously spent on this very misleading video.
The wonders of effects and editing.
While I applaud the efforts of the DWBIA’s video to bring people and perhaps business to downtown. I am wondering if it may have the another affect. When I see something interesting or made out to be much more than it is and then I see the real product I am only to be let down even moreso.
The sad reality is that yes Mark, you are correct when Windsor is down the downtown suffers. But I don’t see any suffering going on in LaSalle, Tecumseh/St. Clair Beach, all of the big box stores on Walker Rd. I also don’t see the suffering in Detroit where things are much worse. In fact I don’t EVER recall seeing downtown in the plight it currently is in even with the recession of the early 1990’s (much worse than it is today) or the early 1980’s.
What makes me grit my teeth in anger is that the city has done relatively nothing to change the dynamics of downtown in the last 8 years. What about the high taxes in downtown? What about the vandalism? The perceived lack of parking, though there is plenty? Massage parlours (other cities used by-laws to remove them why not Windsor? We take to court everything else?) The attraction of a few larger stores; Other cities have told big-box stores where to build, why not Windsor? Why the continuing stalling of the REAL urban village for the City Centre West lands (no, not another school but decent houses that fit the landscape with mixed used retail)?
The streetscape is fine and good (except why did the DWBIA remove the stamped crosswalks when we had the Western Hemisphere State Conference in 2000?). Instead of asphalt why not use pavers for Ouellette? But what is needed is more retail for the people that live in the downtown area. How are we trying to lure business downtown and what type of business oare we trying to attract? It all seems so piece-meal.
Andrew! This is excellent! The pictures tell the story! the Downtown is obviously moving away form being pedestrian friendly with the steel/glass and vacancy dead zones. This is likely the hurt we need until we collectively leave behind the car-centric mindset. I hope it doesnt last long.
Mark, you can put a Cadillac hood ornament on a ’74 Duster but it’s still going to be a ’74 Duster.
If the wasteland that is downtown is the “best Windsor has to offer” then we’re all in BIG trouble, as evidenced by this I.M. photo essay (and the installments to follow this week). The only area that services its residents worse than downtown is the Drouillard district, which has long suffered for reasons beyond its control, despite its best efforts in the face of another recession. And even it does a better job overall showing civic pride in the face of all its challenges.
That right, if an area – downtown – that has virtually nothing for its residents is the “best Windsor has to offer”, someone needs to do a little touring around other more prosperous areas of the city that feature a good mix of retail, services, restaurants, etc. and get outside that downtown bubble of apathy that continues to lead to its continued demise.
Now this is not to say I would discourage patronizing those few businesses that are trying to make downtown a better place. We need to reward the businesses that ride the straight and narrow and that do not contribute to the ‘shitification’ of downtown. There’s no denying that.
I think what the DWBIA needs to ask itself is – does it want to continue with downtown as a “entertainment district” (fancy way of saying kiddie bars, strip joints, massage parlours) or does it want a safe and clean mixed-use district that is equipped to service residents with a strong arts & entertainment component. Insisting that it’s at that point already is patently false and all the propaganda in the world won’t change that. Skillfully edited videos don’t fool eyes that can see as they walk around downtown.
Just watching the fake-branding video, the “arts” section was kind of crappy and sold us way short.
The video features (in the shots) an exterior shot of the Art Gallery, A Bus (?), the outside sign of the Drive Magazine building (?), a decorative light, the sculpture outside the art gallery, The Cleary (SCCFTA), and The Keg (?). No inside shots of the art gallery, no shots of the Capitol (I guess the DWBIA is not anticipating the eventual reopening of the theatre), no shots of our Juno nominated W.S.O. no plays in action, no shots of the local cafe’s like Millk with local artsits showing their works, no shots of downtown independant art galleries, nothing…
Most of the shots in the “arts” section had nothing at all to do with the arts. Maybe I’m thick but I fail to see a link between the Keg and the arts.
The slick video in the end fails to even meet its own goals.
If ‘districts’ are the way to go, how bout a grocery district and a hardware store district and a third place district.
It seems to me that a ‘district’ mindset precludes the opportunity for mixed use.
Districts are great IF you have what is inside those districts already. West Village is a small street (Pelissier) with hardly a lot of residence except for two tall high rises and LAry’s YMCA building (gee, how convenient that was districted as West Village when the City Centre West lands and other surrounding areas like Victoria Ave were left out ).
How about we start a downtown residential group though we have to clear a big hurdle. That hurdle being that since the downtown is surrounded by low income, most low income people do not get heard when lobbying because they don’t have the funds nor time and thus are largely ignored. Any takers?
ME: The downtown residents you speak of may not have the money or the clout with city hall but they do know more about what they need to make downtown a viable place to actually live and raise a family than anyone else. Experience is the best teacher. I think you’re on to a great idea.
I think you’re going to witness a huge influx of people moving into Windsor from the county in the near future. The high cost of gas, hyper-inflation, falling wages, an economic depression in the United States and a nearly bankrupt provincial government without any money to invest in basic infrastructure like roads and sewers will make it impossible to live in the suburbs. Whether downtown Windsor benefits from this influx is anyone’s guess.
Pellisier is the West Village? Hahaha. I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Why don’t we call the little park in front of City Hall Central Park or the Spitfire Arena Olympic Stadium? Ouellette Street has a few banks on it, why don’t we call it the Wall Street Financial District?
Wow. That video… is something else. Whoever was involved in production’s got some serious karmic debt to pay off now.
Don’t forget the wonderful ocean view we have at the foot of Ouellette.
Even with a sunny and slightly warm day on Sunday it seems no one was around downtown on that photo-shot. Why? Because bars aren’t open at that time!
The video is good but it leaves the impression that our downtown is booming and bustling when it isn’t even close to that. I think that thehype will destroy any buiness from going there because they will see what it really looks like.
One minor complaint. On a sunny Sunday, how many people do you find shopping in most downtown areas? Not many, because the stores usually aren’t open.
Now, having said that, I’ve been reading 18 whiney posts about how downtown Windsor is going to hell in a hand cart. Anybody got a brilliant idea on how to change that? It’s been a contuining problem for the last 40 years (and generally a more serious one for small to medium sized downtowns like Windsor, Flint, Colorado Springs, Colo. and the like) as chain retailers abandon the districts for suburban shopping centers where the foot traffic is.
So what do you do? You need 3 things. First landlords with the vision and willingness to clean up their properties. One of the things that impressed me was there really were very few quality properties in the pictures. Boarded up windows and cheap plastic signage does not give a good impression
Second, you need a downtown association that realises that the district WILL NOT be the primary shopping area anymore. The role of downtowns has changed dramatically in the past years. They are not the urban hub that they used to be, and will not reclaim their past glory, with big department stores and fancy hotels. Times change. The major foot traffic is just not there anymore, so……
Third, you need shops that do not need that foot traffic. In my Central Washington town, the best mens clothing store in the area is downtown, as is the best ladies shop. The best shoe store in the area is downtown, as is the best camera shop, the best jewelry store, the best home furnishings store, antique store, and soda fountain. These are shops that do not need foot traffic, they are of such quality that if you are looking for the items they carry you HAVE to go downtown to find them.
And it’s a perfect place for them. Rents are lower than in malls, they don’t need to be open from 9 am till 9 pm 7 days a week, so their costs are lower, and the foot traffic from malls doesn’t really do anything to increase their business because they don’t rely on walkby traffic like a discount shoe store does.
And what has happened here is that with all these quality shopping opertunities, foot traffic has returned. Not in the levels of 40 years ago, but it has increased to the point that a a new cafe/coffee shop (as in latte, not cup o’ joe) has opened, and the quality of the merchants in the area has made it attractive to both other businesses, offices and services, and new residents.
I’m not saying this is the answer, only a possible one. What is needed is the realization that downtown Windsor, like all downtowns, feature new challenges that it didn’t face 40 or 50 years ago. It’s going to require thinking a bit outside the box to help it reclaim its place…..
Hey I like downtown, even if it does look like hell, it’s my hometown for better or for worse.
SBW – I don’t think anyone here takes exception to that, but it could be more. There is no reason for us to have as poor of a downtown as we do.
But in order for things to improve we need to first admit there’s a problem, and work to fix that.
Giving cutesie names and creating fake districts is not the answer. We need to tackle the reason why it’s like this, and work to attract something more than bars and restuarants down there. It’s obvious by now I would hope that they aren’t the answer, and that the Casino is certainly not a saviour.
The two biggest mistakes made downtown in the last decade was the expropriation of the Norwich block, and more recenlty the decision to put the arena in the east end.
That video is awkward. The song is annoying and kind of bad (a taste thing sure, but they do get points for not using the usual lounge type music cheesy PR films always go with) and makes it hard to judge the whole thing.
There are lots of good things about downtown, and about Windsor in general — but most of these details are not the flash things a BIA is looking for when they hire a video production firm.
The feeling I come away with, overall, is desperation.
…and possibly now the urban village.
Interesting reading. I just spent the weekend in Ann Arbor, population about 130,000, a university town, and a great old downtown. I know that the U of M draws a lot more students and employees than U of W but it’s always good to see what other towns close by do well. (Eddie and the boys wouldn’t have to go to Germany and other foreign climes to get some good ideas.)
Just a thought.
VP…I proferred that thought on a few other blogs months ago. Glad to see other people have had the same observation. I recall being in AA on a Monday night in May almost two years ago and the streets were busier than downtown Windsor. Recall too that in the fall and winter and spring months, Ann Arbor has a lot of younger people in their core…same as Windsor, yet they make it work. Why? There are many keys to why their core works but many people here have touched upon it and douglasm has as well………….take care of the natives, offer them something and they will reciprocate in kind.
“I think what the DWBIA needs to ask itself is – does it want to continue with downtown as a “entertainment district†(fancy way of saying kiddie bars, strip joints, massage parlours) or does it want a safe and clean mixed-use district that is equipped to service residents with a strong arts & entertainment component.n.”
The DWIBA has already asked and answered that question, It wants to zone massage parlors out of downtown, institute signage bylaws that would ban neon and strobe lights and 3 am closings
You guys can beat me up all you want, the only point I am making is that the DWBIA video and Andrew’s picture both of our downtown. Both are right, both are wrong whatever way you want to see it. You have to market your strengths in order to get rid of your weaknesses. Chris Holt told me that the organic way of dealing with weeds is to suffocate them out by growing grass. It makes a lot of sense
How do you expect to attract businesses with your comments? it doesn’t start with the DWBIA, it starts with the residents. check out publications on PPS.org, they will show you that neighborhoods regain control with the residents. Keep beating on downtown will become a self fullfilling prophecy
JOHN WROTE
“If the expletive that is downtown is the “best Windsor has to offer†then we’re all in BIG trouble, ”
I THINK YOU FINALLY GET THE POINT I WAS MAKING!!!!!!!!!
“I think what the DWBIA needs to ask itself is – does it want to continue with downtown as a “entertainment district†(fancy way of saying kiddie bars, strip joints, massage parlours) or does it want a safe and clean mixed-use district that is equipped to service residents with a strong arts & entertainment component.n.”
The DWIBA has already asked and answered that question, It wants to zone massage parlors out of downtown, institute signage bylaws that would ban neon and strobe lights and 3 am closings
You guys can beat me up all you want, the only point I am making is that the DWBIA video and Andrew’s picture both of our downtown. Both are right, both are wrong whatever way you want to see it. You have to market your strengths in order to get rid of your weaknesses. Chris Holt told me that the organic way of dealing with weeds is to suffocate them out by growing grass. It makes a lot of sense
How do you expect to attract businesses with your comments? it doesn’t start with the DWBIA, it starts with the residents. check out publications on PPS.org, they will show you that neighborhoods regain control with the residents. Keep beating on downtown will become a self fullfilling prophecy
JOHN WROTE
“If the expletive that is downtown is the “best Windsor has to offer†then we’re all in BIG trouble, ”
I THINK YOU FINALLY GET THE POINT I WAS MAKING!!!!!!!!!
Anyone notice the “Body Rub” parlour in the 1970’s pic of Ouellette?
These places have always existed however, in an economy where the majority of the space is occupied by legitimate retail a massage parlour is not going to get the storefront, street level space.
Let me throw this out there for an intrim solution.
Would it be feasable, to get all the empty storefronts and make them available for local artists to use as studio/gallery space, even if it is just for the summer months? Imagine the impact of every store front being occupied and used, every day. What would it cost to turn on the electricity and water? Would the building owners be able to accomodate this? It would at the least bring people downtown, the artists would be encouraged to keep the outside looking neat and tidy – glass clean, steps swept – to attract patrons in to view their works.
JOHN WROTE
“If the expletive that is downtown is the “best Windsor has to offer†then we’re all in BIG trouble, â€
I THINK YOU FINALLY GET THE POINT I WAS MAKING!!!!!!!!!
So, Mark, editing your debate opponents comments before quoting then responding to them out of context now? Does it make it easier to twist what I originally said to suit your purposes? For the record, I *don’t* get the point you are making. Neither does most anyone else from what I’ve seen so far. The video is not a case of growing grass to smother weeds. It’s more like astroturf. Lift it off and all you’ve got underneath is gravel. That doesn’t cut it.
Sorry, John, I guess that you didn’t get my point. The only reason that I edited one word of your quote was because I couldn’t stomach the use of the adjective that you used.
I did not respond to your statement out of context or twist what you said.
I proudly stand by the DWBIA video as being the best way to recruit businesses to downtown The strategies fo the DWBIA are based on the recommendations of the International Downtown Association Panel and a Merchandising study with recommendations on how to recruit. Districting was a main recommendation of both reports.
John and Andrews frustrations with me seem to make them attack our downtown and resist acknowledging any positive element of it.
If you don’t like our specific video, I think its a matter of taste. I’d have yet to see a downtown business recruitment video that surpasses it.
As to James comments, Christian Aldo has converted 3 empty bldgs to art galleries on pelissier. The DWBIA and WIFF tried, but were rebuffed due to insurance concerns.
Shawn Micallef has commented in this blog, I’d like to hear him weigh in on some of these discussion points
BTW, I hvae yet to see one postive result from criticising our downtown. If Andrew or John think they’re brutal honesty somewhow will affect positive change, I’d like to see them demonstrate how that has ever happened in our city. It will only give politicians justivficaiton to further abandon their duty to downtown
BTW, I hvae yet to see one postive result from criticising our downtown. If Andrew or John think they’re brutal honesty somewhow will affect positive change, I’d like to see them demonstrate how that has ever happened in our city. It will only give politicians justivficaiton to further abandon their duty to downtown
Brutal honesty about violent events occuring on Pelissier street near Wyandotte seems be justification for spearheading a new by-law. Did you accomplish that by closing your eyes real tight? I recall one early comment by yourself (elsewhere) where you offered to stand there with a camcorder, or something to that effect, to show city council just how bad it is after hours. Does brutal honesty only work when it’s for your political agenda, or can the rest of us have a say too?
“John and Andrews frustrations with me seem to make them attack our downtown and resist acknowledging any positive element of it.”
Oh really? Read back through the comments again. For example, one of mine –
Now this is not to say I would discourage patronizing those few businesses that are trying to make downtown a better place. We need to reward the businesses that ride the straight and narrow and that do not contribute to the ’shitification’ of downtown. There’s no denying that.
Also go back and read through seven years of posts highlighting history and architecture of Windsor – especially downtown – on this site. There are veteran businesses in the downtown area that have been highlighted very recently and spoken of very highly (and defended vigorously) by yours truly and Andrew. On the shoot itself, we had lunch downtown. We stopped and admired a couple businesses that were open that comprise the small start of what could be a proper mix to serve a potential residential influx. How many people commenting can even say that much? Or that it had been one’s second trip downtown to spend money that weekend alone.
Well, it’s a good thing the video isn’t on Youtube. Most people won’t even know it exists and be able to laugh at how far off from reality it is.
The soundtrack and flashiness makes it seem like it was designed for the 19 year old Michigan bar crowd, not urban professionals or families. It’s in poor taste and poorly thought out. Now contrast this with say some of the Pure Michigan ads for Detroit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4OA-Bi_sJQ Big difference.
Mark wrote:
If Andrew or John think they’re brutal honesty somewhow will affect positive change, I’d like to see them demonstrate how that has ever happened in our city. It will only give politicians justivficaiton to further abandon their duty to downtown
Not at all, but I do feel the need to counteract the “spin” put out by the City and the DWBIA that everything is rosy down there. I bet most outlying residents haven’t been downtown in years. Why? For the most part there isn’t anything to bring them down. We have elements (like the WSO which for some reason wasn’t in the slick marketing video), but those are things you drive down to see and drive back home.
Watching that video is like having someone pissing in my ear and telling me it raining.
I don’t think the comments and photos here are unnecessarily slamming downtown, rather it’s tough love. What I see in these pictures, mostly, is opportunity. Buildings that are still intact (albeit behind some unfortunate stucco or bricked false-fronts) and empty spaces that are likely cheap to rent, waiting for creative folks to move in.
Of course, those creative folks (from business people to artists) can’t do much when the city’s economy is down.
I don’t mean to be too hard on the video, but ultra-slick PR videos like that don’t appeal to me (maybe if that atrocious song was changed I might think a little different though) because they look like every other ultra-slick PR video produced. They might know a lot more this sort of thing than I do (I hope they do) but what does it tell me about Windsor? The aesthetic of the video is that of trying to hard (which is what I meant by “desperation”) because I don’t get a feel for what Windsor is like. Instead, I get quick editing that looks like the beginning title sequece of, say, a Global newscast that tries to show they’re urban but their studio is really out in the suburbs.
All that to say, the effort is commendable, I’m just not down with the execution. Though the video falls into the trap of many provincial towns and cities, it is far from just a Windsor thing. Last year the outrage at Tourism Toronto’s “Toronto Unlimited” campaign was wide and loud. Ads ran in the New York Times that embarrassed the city. The mayor disowned himself from the campaign (Tourism Toronto is an arms length body). They still run, but it was cooled down a bit. Like this Windsor video, it depicted a Toronto none of us recognized.
That doesn’t mean to avoid portraying Windsor as good and positively as one can, but rather to make an effort at getting to heart of Windsor’s charms. A walkable downtown. Follow somebody around a bit more rather than have 30 jump cuts a minute. Linger on some of those fine buildings, the magnificent and stunning view of detroit. There are people in Detroit who long for an intimate “real city” feel, and Windsor can provide that in a few places. Royal Oak might be the only place in Detroit where you can get that, and it could not touch the kind of diversity that Windsor has.
Get rid of that song!!! That shit might play in heavy rotation on Much Music, but it appeals to a fairly narrow slice of people. Use a song by a local artist! There are loads around Windsor. Take a playful approach, a whimsical approach, instead of the cliche corporate boardroom approach. This video will appeal to some people certainly, but a lot of the “creative class” (for lack of a better term) which their money to spend and etc are sophisticated enough to see through it.
The details are what attach people to places. It’s more of a challenge to show them because it takes time to see them, to get people in to them. When I come back to Windsor I often sit in the Coffee Exchange and write because it has Wifi and a proper espresso machine. The patio is gone though — would have made a urbane shot of someobody on a laptop there. I’d see that and think “hmm an activity other than partying downtown … neat.” Maybe that was in the video, but the song got in the way.
People in the suburbs who may have not come down to Downtown in ages have the impression that it’s a wild no-go territory — this video doesn’t undermine that view. It shows life, yes, but not the mixed-use kind of downtown city’s are striving for. Delicate and sweet and thoughtful rather than brash and loud and screaming.
All this is IMHO, of course.
Shawn, all excellent point, and for the record your humble opinion is always welcome over here.
The post this week aren’t slamming downtown as Shawn pointed out. I just want to show the other side of the coin, the side you don’t see in slick videos and glossy flyers, but rather the side we the residents have to live with.